What do you think is the future of Vi India?

Lolita_Magnum

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Do you think this will be the end of Vi? Or will it survive? For existing users, what are you think would you be porting right now or waiting for the aftermath?
Ever since the struggle of Vi had started, network performance has degraded a lot and they also have yet to introduce 4G+ service. I don't really care about 5G because 8-10Mbps is good enough for cell device. Other bandwidth intensive tasks are easily done on wifi.
 
if govt forfeits retro-tax then it is good to survive and we can invest in its stock
 
Forfeiting retro tax won't help much. It's the AGR which is becoming a real pain. Which country in the world taxes a firm for 50k crores and that too using absurd methodologies.
 
But didn’t they know it in past? They mined a lot of cash during 2005 to 2016 after knowing that they will have to pay the AGR dues. Then why are they crying now?
 
Forfeiting retro tax won't help much. It's the AGR which is becoming a real pain. Which country in the world taxes a firm for 50k crores and that too using absurd methodologies.
in retro-tax they would gain over 22k Cr and AGR would be challenged later. this govt is messing around will taxpayers money, why large scale farmers are not taxed even finishing industry is not taxed, there are crore-pati chaiwallah and many other from unorganized sector who dont know what is tax. only 1.46Cr people pay taxes in india does that mean others earn less than 5lakh per annum
 


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This is a good read
 
Forfeiting retro tax won't help much. It's the AGR which is becoming a real pain. Which country in the world taxes a firm for 50k crores and that too using absurd methodologies.

AGR was introduced only in 1999 that too to save telcos from high spectrum cost. I think 15% of revenue. Real problem was with this telcos not paying AGR properly.....50K Crore Figure that you are talking about are the due since 2005 and before ..This AGR case itself is going since 2005...

Who stopped companies to pay up AGR as per govt calculations since last 15-16 years as a protest or atleast made provisions and kept fighting the case..huge numbers are due to non payment, penalties, Interest for so many years ..
And yes...companies did agree to pay up the AGR as per govt calculations in 1999 when they accepted relief package
 
Forfeiting retro tax won't help much. It's the AGR which is becoming a real pain. Which country in the world taxes a firm for 50k crores and that too using absurd methodologies.

AGR was introduced only in 1999 that too to save telcos from high spectrum cost. I think 15% of revenue. Real problem was with this telcos not paying AGR properly.....50K Crore Figure that you are talking about are the due since 2005 and before ..This AGR case itself is going since 2005...

Who stopped companies to pay up AGR as per govt calculations since last 15-16 years or atleast made provisions ..huge numbers are due to non payment, penalties, Interest for so many years ..
And yes...companies did agree to pay up the AGR as per govt calculations in 1999 when they accepted relief package
 
@vikram_ch this you will have to ask the govt like why certain farmers like Amitabh Bacchan and others won't pay tax despite his income being way above the bracket.
Who stopped companies to pay up AGR as per govt calculations
You cannot tax the companies based on your whims and fancies. That is effectively called "tax terrorism" and it goes against the basic notion of BIT which India has with the Netherlands. Time and again, international firms have called out that the spectrum royalties are one of the most expensive in India. Clearly it shows that govt is trying to appropriate absurd money through tax.
What makes you think the Dutch govt will hold back against Indian firms if AGR has to go through? They can use the same absurd logic used by the DoT, Tax dept and the govt.(Cairn has already done it, just to give you an idea) and charge billions of dollars. Watch videos on YT to get an idea as to what methodologies have been adopted by the govt to tax them. I am not saying that these telcos have done a right thing by delaying the taxes. But by imposing penalty on penalty on not paying taxes, interests is not the way to proceed with any firm. If you think foreign investors are going to invest in India with such stupid rules, good luck with that!

You cannot offset the tax not paid by Reliance/Jio onto other telcos. That is plain brutal murder of how private sector works. In the end we, as tax payers, have to suffer for such sh!++Y govt. policies. Such things don't happen in the western countries. That was the main reason why BIT was brought in... to have transparency in tax and level playing field to both domestic and international players under the guidance of MIGA, World Bank.

@Nikhil Sharma it's like saying the govt says today you will be taxed 100 bucks for spectrum, them a few years later, they will claim 100 bucks for the office rented by VI, its employees, tax on the rent on PSU's land(ONGC and another one in point) and other arbitrary points. No company will bow to such methods of taxation. If they were going to implement such measures, then these things should have been made clear in the agreement before signing any treaty.
 
They may have been taxed exorbitantly, but what were they doing about it till now? I'm sure Voda has capable legal counsel to contest against illegitimate taxation. Besides, charging the consumers absurdly with arbitrary policies for their dues is daylight robbery and no less crime.
 
@vikram_ch

You cannot tax the companies based on your whims and fancies. That is effectively called "tax terrorism" and it goes against the basic notion of BIT which India has with the Netherlands.
AGR issue is completely different. Check why AGR is there at 1st place...
1999 or so Govt gave relief to telcos...Instead of paying high one time price for telecom entry it was converted to revenue sharing

All telcos agreed to the definition of AGR when it was signed ...The reason they lost at so many places
Lost at DOT
Lost at TDSAT
Lost at High Court
Lost at Supreme Court
Lost Review Petition at Supreme Court

So it is not tax terrorism....all telcos knew what they are liable to pay from day 1. Not paying or not making provisions was the biggest mistake

Please dont bring in some not related BIT/Netherlands etc
retro Capital gain is different issue ....which govt has withdrawn as per the latest bill.
 
In 1999, telecoms had one role: set up cell BTS sites for cellphones to make calls, or pull up landlines for narrowband access and/or landlines, ISDN, etc.

Never did any of these companies agree to pay a share of their revenue on non-telecom services' revenues. That's where the government tried to clarify its position and the telecoms took the government to court. There's a license fee, a spectrum usage fee, both of which are based on the AGR. If spectrum is being used for telecom services, and the license is to provide telecom services in the country, then why is the government claiming a share in their non-telecom revenues like rent and utilities? Why would the companies ever agree to pay the government for other non-telecom transactions, especially when it is loss-making? This is adjusted gross revenue, not adjusted gross profit, and telecoms balance their balance sheets in different ways to appease shareholders.

For example if a company buys equipment with equity, the debt maybe balanced against revenue obtained from say rent of unused land. Now obviously the company is doing this to make their balance sheets look good, but net profit is sitll low since revenue is only marginally more than the Capex and opex. The government comes like a big Dada there and says pay up based on your revenues now, for all revenues you made. If the companies themselves are barely limping along in terms of actual profits, from where will they pay these AGR based dues?
 
Also to clarify your position, the relief given in 1999 was grossly eclipsed by the sharp raise of base prices per MHz spectrum especially after the 2G scam. India has one of the highest per MHz rates in the world, because the government is assessing it based on absolute number of subscribers and therefore revenue potential. The government doesn't have the sense to understand that in a 55% agrarian country, with around 23 crore people living below the poverty line, and a super price conscious middle class, such revenue potential is less realistic than a wet dream. It's insane and if Vi collapses, India may not get another private telecom enterprise for a long long time. It'll be just Jio and Airtel then, and Airtel is also bleeding. Jio just needs to wait long enough, and they have another 5-10 years before their equipment needs upgrades and fresh capital needs to be pumped in. This government is literally turning your country into a cesspool of shit to the international investor community just to please one man and please his ego to beat his brother in the telecom arena.
 

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