New Broadband Service Provider

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Interesting link: Even the most liberal countries WRT telecommunications have fair usage policies. The only difference is, that they make sense. I think we'll adopt one similar to this.

PCCW - PCCW Fair Use Policy

1. Purpose

While PCCW is devoted to providing a wide spectrum of consumer telecommunications services on a fixed fee charging mechanism or 'pay-as-you-go' basis in the consumer market, it is PCCW's reasonable expectation that our customers and users (collectively referred to as "users") will not abuse, misuse, exhaust, waste or otherwise take unfair advantage of our consumer telecommunications services to the detriment of other users or PCCW. This Fair Use Policy is intended to ensure that all users will be given a fair opportunity to access our consumer telecommunications services without abusing PCCW’s network resources or interfering other users' enjoyment.
 
Hey mg can I ask you one quick unrelated question: When I download more than 100gb on my MTNL connection is mtnl making loss on me(on per GB price basis)? I pay 999rs for 1mbps unlimited.
 
Hey mg can I ask you one quick unrelated question: When I download more than 100gb on my MTNL connection is mtnl making loss on me(on per GB price basis)? I pay 999rs for 1mbps unlimited.

That depends on how much MTNL pays for bandwidth. They buy a lot more than we do, so I expect that they get better rates.
 
stirredo said:
Hey mg can I ask you one quick unrelated question: When I download more than 100gb on my MTNL connection is mtnl making loss on me(on per GB price basis)? I pay 999rs for 1mbps unlimited.

they could,they could be not

their rates go down cause they buy wholesale,plus even if they make a loss on you they will make a profit on 98% of the users cause they don't download more so loss on few is made by everybody else.

Mostly in MTNL's case they would have cost for example of Rs.999 which would include 50gb bandwidth,service,wire cost recuperate,proft,tax.

Most people would stay inside the above 50gb limit so they make a profit and for who don't are exceptions and are made back by profit on the majority

---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

mgcarley said:
Let me clarify it for you again. It costs us roughly the same to deliver data at 1mbit/s 10mbit/s or 100mbit/s. Ergo, 200GB of data as you had requested here View Profile: mgcarley - India Broadband Forum is the same no matter what speed we deliver it at - 1mbit/s, 10mbit/s or 100mbit/s. Therefore, we consider that there is no point in artificially limiting the speed for our data plans.

Had you been asking about our flat-rate plans, the answer would be different. Flat-rate or "unlimited" plans are worked out on the basis that the average customer will download only so much. I can guarantee you that NO ISP will be happy if you utilize 2TB of bandwidth and will probably do whatever they can to stop it from happening, even though the connection is capable of that in theory.

We have EITHER data plans whereby the data limits are clearly defined but speed is not restricted (the costs of which I have already described to you) OR flat-rate plans whereby the speed is restricted but the data limits are not there. Please check Powered by Google Docs for more information. I would suggest a 10mbit/s flat-rate plan for you, or a 5/10 night booster plan.[/QUOTE]


yeah i knew you said and i know it costs you the same to output 5mbps or 100mbps.And bandwidth is the main cost.

but then why say your plans are cheaper when you are gonna put a limit on your plans.

2 TB usage were just to show how it would do,not that anybody would do it.

I would atleast do 300gb on 5mbps.


And seeing your plans on rs.2300 5mbps plans which could do more than 1 TB.Why not give me 300gb 100mbps on rs.3000 as it would cost you the same as downloading 300gb on 5mbps
 
---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ----------



Which provider are you referring to? The one who opened this thread or mine?

Your's.
 


Why not give me 300gb 100mbps on rs.3000 as it would cost you the same as downloading 300gb on 5mbps
Isnt that what data plans are for ?
 
I would like to thank all the users who have expressed their views on our proposed internet plans. We will be taking every view into consideration and try to introduce better internet services which are affordable and beneficial to users. Here 'better' means not in terms of only reliability, but in terms of bandwidth speed and cost. Here are few clarifications to queries raised by some of the users.--> We will be launching our services by this year end, initially in south & west India and then to the rest of India.--> I would like to clarify that all the proposed internet plans will be of unlimited usage without any fair usage policy. Let me explain how we can do that. The major cost to any telecom service provider to provide broadband services is the last mile network. For example, DSL require high quality copper network, that too within the specified range of exchange which is not proper in India. WiMax require huge spectrum which is very much scarce in India and FTTH require new network roll outs which increases the project cost and thereby the services cost. We have selected the cable network to provide our services which is the biggest network presently available in India after electricity network. By making some minor changes to the network and implementing new technologies like DOCSIS 3.0, we can offer high speed broadband plans at a very low cost.--> No internet provider pays his upstream bandwidth provider in terms of downloaded/uploaded data. They only pay in terms of bandwidth speed. So irrespective of how much data is transferred, the provider gets fixed bill for its subscribed speed. Before the cost of bandwidth to the provider was very high, but now internet exchanges have come up and reduced the bandwidth cost to almost near zero. Now any internet provider can connect to NIXI and get full national internet table for free cost and in the same way it can connect to any major internet exchange (ex. LINX) and get the global internet table at nominal cost. The only cost to the provider is the bandwidth pipe from its data centre to internet exchanges.--> But still the internet services are below standards in India when compared with developed countries. The average connection speed in India is 256Kbps. Still many providers charge users on data transfer basis. When provider is getting unlimited pipe to internet, then why charge users. The main reason is to recover last mile network cost and decrease the online time of users, so that the connection ratio can be increased. In India there is huge backbone bandwidth available, but not the last mile. The last mile is the network which reaches users home.--> Hence by utilizing the existing cable network and implementing new technologies on it, we will be able to provide high speed broadband services without any data transfer limit of any kind at an affordable prices.--> And I almost forgot to mention the main point. We are the triple play service provider. So we provide TV, Internet and Phone on the same cable network. Users can get advanced video services (ex. HDTV, Video on Demand, Interactive TV), high speed broadband and high quality phone service for a fixed affordable monthly charge. It is not mandatory to take all the three, users can opt for any service.
 
they could,they could be not

their rates go down cause they buy wholesale,plus even if they make a loss on you they will make a profit on 98% of the users cause they don't download more so loss on few is made by everybody else.

Mostly in MTNL's case they would have cost for example of Rs.999 which would include 50gb bandwidth,service,wire cost recuperate,proft,tax.

Most people would stay inside the above 50gb limit so they make a profit and for who don't are exceptions and are made back by profit on the majority


Correct.

yeah i knew you said and i know it costs you the same to output 5mbps or 100mbps.And bandwidth is the main cost.

but then why say your plans are cheaper when you are gonna put a limit on your plans.

2 TB usage were just to show how it would do,not that anybody would do it.

I would atleast do 300gb on 5mbps.

And seeing your plans on rs.2300 5mbps plans which could do more than 1 TB.Why not give me 300gb 100mbps on rs.3000 as it would cost you the same as downloading 300gb on 5mbps

I don't think you are understanding anything I have said. Yes, you can download 300GB on our 5mbit/s flat-rate plan, but effectively speaking we will make a loss on you.

In addition, on a flat-rate plan, we have every right to implement traffic shaping if we so desire, whereas on the data plans, it is guaranteed that you can utilize the GBs you have paid for.

We *could* *theoretically* launch 100mbit/s flat rate at this price already, but the problem is that people like you would go nuts and "hog" all the bandwidth.

--> No internet provider pays his upstream bandwidth provider in terms of downloaded/uploaded data. They only pay in terms of bandwidth speed. So irrespective of how much data is transferred, the provider gets fixed bill for its subscribed speed. Before the cost of bandwidth to the provider was very high, but now internet exchanges have come up and reduced the bandwidth cost to almost near zero. Now any internet provider can connect to NIXI and get full national internet table for free cost and in the same way it can connect to any major internet exchange (ex. LINX) and get the global internet table at nominal cost. The only cost to the provider is the bandwidth pipe from its data centre to internet exchanges.


Firstly, I've never claimed that we pay per GB, but we have worked out an effective price per GB based on the amount transferrable by an STM-1 at the price given to us. We delegate bandwidth and formulate plans appropriately.

Secondly, clearly you've never read NIXI's tariff structure. If your transfer is 1:1 at NIXI, then good for you, but even hosting speedtest.net and mirrors for several distros of Linux, we are seeing realistic numbers closer to 3:1. NIXI bandwidth is easily the most expensive bandwidth we can procure.

--> But still the internet services are below standards in India when compared with developed countries. The average connection speed in India is 256Kbps. Still many providers charge users on data transfer basis. When provider is getting unlimited pipe to internet, then why charge users. The main reason is to recover last mile network cost and decrease the online time of users, so that the connection ratio can be increased. In India there is huge backbone bandwidth available, but not the last mile. The last mile is the network which reaches users home.


Because some users as above will utilize far more than other users, affecting the overall experience for everyone. While I have no beef per se with a user like solid_snake4rd utilizing 300GB of bandwidth, if it affects other customers, it has to be controlled.

--> Hence by utilizing the existing cable network and implementing new technologies on it, we will be able to provide high speed broadband services without any data transfer limit of any kind at an affordable prices.


The existing cable network is not very good.

--> And I almost forgot to mention the main point. We are the triple play service provider. So we provide TV, Internet and Phone on the same cable network. Users can get advanced video services (ex. HDTV, Video on Demand, Interactive TV), high speed broadband and high quality phone service for a fixed affordable monthly charge. It is not mandatory to take all the three, users can opt for any service.

🙂 We should talk.
 
Isnt that what data plans are for ?

yeah but DATA plans with 300gb at 100mbps are costliers than 5mbps with unlimited.

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------


I don't think you are understanding anything I have said. Yes, you can download 300GB on our 5mbit/s flat-rate plan, but effectively speaking we will make a loss on you.

In addition, on a flat-rate plan, we have every right to implement traffic shaping if we so desire, whereas on the data plans, it is guaranteed that you can utilize the GBs you have paid for.

We *could* *theoretically* launch 100mbit/s flat rate at this price already, but the problem is that people like you would go nuts and "hog" all the bandwidth.

Yeah i know but giving me 5mbps at Rs.2300 or giving me 100mbps at Rs.3500 won't stop my 300gb download.Just that 100mbps will help it download faster.

I know your 100mbps data plans include pricing for its specific locked bandwidth limit and the unlimited flat-rate plans prices are just based on estimated that everybody won't download over 50-100gbs or whatever that price can hold

Because some users as above will utilize far more than other users, affecting the overall experience for everyone. While I have no beef per se with a user like solid_snake4rd utilizing 300GB of bandwidth, if it affects other customers, it has to be controlled.

Does that mean 5mbps would have ridicules speed and that 5mbps would not really be 5mbps and we have problems on your connection after a certain data limit.And have high contention ratios

till what data limit will we not see any controlling?wat will be meant as abuse?

Also what are contention ratios of your data and unlimited plans?
 
I have downloaded more than 300 GB with the speed on my signature with MTNLs 1mbps plan for only 999 per month.300 GB for 999 a month! Aint that a loss?Can someone please let me know why MTNL does such big mistakes with the speeds?
 
^^ Averages , just because you did doesnt mean everyone downloads 300GB , I have the same plan , i download ~ 40-50 Gb a month , some people may download only 10-20 GB , they rely on the average amount being lower .
 
yeah but DATA plans with 300gb at 100mbps are costliers than 5mbps with unlimited.

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------



Yeah i know but giving me 5mbps at Rs.2300 or giving me 100mbps at Rs.3500 won't stop my 300gb download.Just that 100mbps will help it download faster.

I know your 100mbps data plans include pricing for its specific locked bandwidth limit and the unlimited flat-rate plans prices are just based on estimated that everybody won't download over 50-100gbs or whatever that price can hold


It all depends on users like you. As I've mentioned, we don't have plans to have any kind of speed-reduction after a given limit (as other providers do), but if it turns out that your downloading is causing other customers to not be able to obtain the bandwiddth that they have paid for, we may throttle your connection individually or something like that.

I think I've already posted what we consider abuse in other threads, like here https://broadband.forum/hayai-broadband/59278-hayai-broadband-fair-usage-policy/#post392523. There is no set threshold.

Does that mean 5mbps would have ridicules speed and that 5mbps would not really be 5mbps and we have problems on your connection after a certain data limit.And have high contention ratios

till what data limit will we not see any controlling?wat will be meant as abuse?

Also what are contention ratios of your data and unlimited plans?


We estimate a minimum of about 2.67Mbit/s of available bandwidth per user up to our ISP node, assuming our line is 100% saturated. Since we add another line once it gets to 80%, it should always be faster than this.

So we're nicely above the 256kbit/s prescription by the TRAI 🙂

Generally speaking, contention ratios don't really apply to FTTH the way that they do to DSL etc, but generally speaking, there is no more than 374 users per 1Gbit/s of available bandwidth inside the network, and at the border of the network it's not more than about 500 users per 100 mbit/s, which works out to 5:1 for the time being, or an average of somewhere around 150Gbytes per customer per month.

We may change this if the usage patterns of customers allow.

Data plans are not subject to contention ratios because you're getting a prescribed amount of GB - generally speaking you'll get whatever the server will give you.

I have downloaded more than 300 GB with the speed on my signature with MTNLs 1mbps plan for only 999 per month.
300 GB for 999 a month! Aint that a loss?
Can someone please let me know why MTNL does such big mistakes with the speeds?

MTNL is government owned for starters and secondly, it makes plenty of money raping users with things like 1.3GB prepaid broadband for Rs499. Overall, I'd say the average MTNL user just doesn't use that much compared to what we are anticipating.

^^ Averages , just because you did doesnt mean everyone downloads 300GB , I have the same plan , i download ~ 40-50 Gb a month , some people may download only 10-20 GB , they rely on the average amount being lower .

If everyone downloaded 300GB per month, I guarantee MTNL would implement an Fair Usage Policy, otherwise if their wholesale costs are less than 20% of mine, I'll be seriously annoyed.
 
it makes plenty of money raping users with things like 1.3GB prepaid broadband for Rs499.

what about charging Rs. 1-2-3-4-5 per MB on 3G and other plans 🙂
 

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