Connecting Two Local Networks through WAN Routers, Possible?

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lockhrt999

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Location
Pune
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Tata ka Batata
Hello Folks,

As you can see above I have two networks (A & B. Right now they receive separate internet connections. I'd like to connect them so that I can share internet connection (and possibly files too) from point A to point B. The need of doing so because I can't afford two separate connections.

I have two ADSL routers lying around (from earlier connections) and also happen to have a WAN cable long enough to reach both points. These ADSL routers are very generic routers provided by TATA Communications for their broadband and both are identical. They do support basic routing functionality such as bridge mode, DHCP etc. Generally in ADSL routers one of the cable is attached to the ISP server and that's how it gets the net.

I have following questions,

1. My theory is, in bridge mode (ie non-adsl/PPPoE) these two routers can connect each other for communication (As shown in the picture). Of Course, I will disable DHCP and put them on static IP mode for the peace of mind. This is just my theory, I need to know if this works. It could also be like, these routers become useless pieces of junk without an ISP server controlling them, in which case my theory is wrong.
2. What kind of throughput can I expect at point B. I know for sure these routers don't have problem supporting broadband speeds up to 4 mbps. I know sharing of files won't be as fast as it would be on LAN but it's not a priority for me.
3. Do I need to configure these routers in special way so that files could also be shared? Because, I think if I put them on bridge mode they will let all kinds of protocols to pass through .
4. If you think it won't work in bridge mode & some other configuration is needed, then what's that?

Thanks.
 
Let's get this out of the way first - Why is there a splitter? What does it do here? How are the modems connected to the 'splitter'?
 
The adsl routers can't share anything through adsl WAN port (unless you own a private telephone exchange hehe). If they have 4 LAN ports your config will work (with Ethernet cable connection between the two routers). Single LAN port adsl routers will not work.
Why not connect LAN port of A to WAN port of B directly (with Ethernet cable) and share the internet connection?
 
uberjon said:
Let's get this out of the way first - Why is there a splitter? What does it do here? How are the modems connected to the 'splitter'?
Click to expand...
There's always a splitter. I don't know what else to call it. No, it doesn't split WAN cable into telephone and internet like BSNL. All this humble device does is convert 4 wire line into 2 wire line. All Tata connections have them.
Manoj Mathew said:
The adsl routers can't share anything through adsl WAN port (unless you own a private telephone exchange hehe). If they have 4 LAN ports your config will work (with Ethernet cable connection between the two routers). Single LAN port adsl routers will not work.
Why not connect LAN port of A to WAN port of B directly (with Ethernet cable) and share the internet connection?
Click to expand...
If you mean to say, single port routers can't be used as a switch/hub for sharing file then my friend you're wrong. The required circuitry is present there, all it needs a know how.
Why don't I use CAT6 cable between A and B? Not only it's expensive for given distance but also fragile under the whether. Cheapest LAN cable solution will cost me around 1500. LAN cables are fault prone. There's always a chances of developing ghost in the wire. Single ghost wastes the whole cable.
I want to use the infrastructure that I already have. And, it's more challenging, yeah?
uberjon said:
I was hoping that the cable shown between the Modem & the splitter was NOT a telephone cable.....
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's one of them (4 copper wires).
 
lockhrt999 said:
If you mean to say, single port routers can't be used as a switch/hub for sharing file then my friend you're wrong. The required circuitry is present there, all it needs a know how.
Click to expand...
What circuitry is already present? The adsl chipset cannot communicate with anything other than a DSLAM which is why I said you need a private exchange. No power in the line, no channels set up, no sync-up, no communication.
What you're essentially saying is that with two receivers, you can set up a two way communication system.
I'm sorry, but I don't see a point in posting any further in this thread.
 

Manoj Mathew said:
What circuitry is already present? The adsl chipset cannot communicate with anything other than a DSLAM which is why I said you need a private exchange.
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That's why I said in the first post, I won't be using adsl. Routers do support bridge mode. In bridge mode they work like simple cable type (non adsl) modems.
I know what I'm trying to do is a long shot but still I'd want to do it because it's a long shot. I'm not a guy who throws money and demands the solutions. I'm a guy who likes to create those solutions.
I'm sorry, I couldn't post query simple enough for everyone to understand.
 
My friend, I really cannot understand you. Those are adsl routers right? Even in bridge mode, the adsl component is what sets up the communication link. They have to sync up with the master modem card on the DSLAM. Two client modems cannot sync up with each other and form a communication link, it's as simple as that.
The difference between bridge and ordinary router mode is that instead of pppoe being established within the router itself, it is set up from a connecting device, that's all. So even in bridge mode the adsl modem part needs to work, even if pppoe and routing are taken care of by other devices. I hope you now understand that saying really doesn't make any sense.
Your best option is using an Ethernet cable or if the two sites have a clear line of sight, you could set up a wireless link. If you still persist in thinking that what you're thinking is feasible, then I give up.
Edit: If you really want a creative solution, you could try creating Ethernet link over the 4 wire telephone cable, there will be some loss at that distance, but you may be able to establish a 10mbps link. Read this http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1851236&#r12
 
Yes. Manoj is on the right track.
Router A (LAN Port) ->Telephone cable (Terminated with RJ45 connectors on both ends)->Router B (LAN Port)-> Computer (other LAN port).
The telephone cable has 4 cores, so there is a good chance that it will work.
 
@Manoj: that was the answer I was looking for. But still I'm gonna try this solution if I get a chance.
I'm already using that creative solution using lan splitters. And no, this doesn't drop bandwidth, I use all 100mbps bandwidth. But this solution is good for indoor only. If you guys don't know then let me tell you CAT 3,5,6 cables aren't good outside. I might be using street lamp polls to rest the cable. CAT 3,5,6 cables are way too heavy to support their own weight. They won't last more than a year. WAN cable which is used by tata can last a decade at least, not only it's light but also has support wire to carry the weight.
 
In case you don't know this, there are CAT 3, 5 etc cables that are meant for called outdoor use. That is how SO MANY PEOPLE get their telephone & internet. Are you saying that the cables need to be replaced every year?? Check yourself. DO NOT make blanket statements like 'CAT 3,5,6 cables aren't good outside'.
All of a sudden you say street lamp poles. How did this suddenly come up? Are you planning to run (indoor) cat 3 cable from one building to another? I wonder what else you missed to mention? Anyway, this is getting old really fast.
No point being here.. Unsubscribing from thread.
 
uberjon said:
In case you don't know this, there are CAT 3, 5 etc cables that are meant for called outdoor use. That is how SO MANY PEOPLE get their telephone & internet. Are you saying that the cables need to be replaced every year?? Check yourself. DO NOT make blanket statements like 'CAT 3,5,6 cables aren't good outside'.
Click to expand...
CAT 3, 5, 6 are twisted unshielded cables and aren't used outside. CAT 3, 5, 6 are used indoor from splitter/junction box to modems and are hardly a few meters long. All companies use shielded and non-twisted cables.
Lets see,
1. BSNL uses a pair copper cable that's not twisted but is shielded using some sort of fibre line running in the middle (not CAT3). Due to insufficient bandwidth throughput of copper wires, they are providing shielded fibre optic nowadays (not cat 3)
2. TATA uses spatial made in goa cable to carry the internet, it's a pair of copper cable shielded using a strong steel wire (not cat3). Their leased line and high speed docomo connections are provided by shielded fibre optic though (not cat3)
3. Hathway in its infancy used coaxial cable (not a CAT3) then they used WAN cable like tata (not CAT3) at some place nowadays docsis is a fibre optic connection (not CAT3)
4. Reliance uses some sort of thick cable (up to the junction box) that can be used underground (definitely not CATs)
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1. Even though with Tikona where 99% of distance is covered wirelessly for last 1% they use CAT6 (with PoE). For the last two years I have a tikona connection, during this time this cat 6 developed a crazy slackness which got it tangled up by a passerby truck. They had to replace snapped cable, broken outdoor modem, POE transmitter.
2. Airtel is also mostly wireless. For their indoor modem to computer connection they do provide 2 meter CAT 3 cable with CAT 6 connectors(cost cutting) exactly like manoj suggested.
3. Reliance uses cat 6 (or 5 donno exactly) cable from their junction box (placed on the same storey/building terrace/parking) but it's all indoor again. So does hathway, hayate (don't remember exact name) and probably rest of the ISPs
4. TATA uses 1 meter CAT 3 cable from the splitter to modem. From modem to a computer they provide 1 meter long CAT5/6 cable (like shown in my picture in first post).
5. BSNL --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, none of the ISP/telcos are stupid to provide entire connection on just CAT 3, 5, 6 cables.
Please go through this FCC documentation > http://transition.fcc.gov/omd/history/internet/documents/display_case.pdf jump to second page.
Probably Tikona is largest outdoor user of CAT 6 for their connections and may be that's why they are the best broadband provider in India, No?
CAT 6 is very cool cable however, it does support throughput up to 10 gigabits per second. I know this because I have 10 Gbps network between my workstations (at point A). If CAT 6 can support such heavy bandwidth then why don't ISPs use that instead of shielded fibre optic considering CAT 6 is cheaper than shielded fibre optic? The reason is very simple, it's not meant to use outside.
Now this is where a user in my position generally posts "Get your facts right before posting", But I'm not posting that. I believe forums are for knowledge transfer. No one has all the knowledge of the world. Everyone does commit mistake sometime and it can be corrected by a friendly advice. There's no need for personal attacks.
I'm not a newbie on the internet/forum systems. It does however saddens me when attacks/egos starts appearing in the middle of nowhere.
uberjon said:
All of a sudden you say street lamp poles. How did this suddenly come up? Are you planning to run (indoor) cat 3 cable from one building to another? I wonder what else you missed to mention? Anyway, this is getting old really fast.
Click to expand...
The clue is in my first post itself where I've mentioned the distance between A & B points is about 100 meters. Now, did you think those A & B points are in my house? Do I look like a guy who owns the buckingham palace? 😀
I don't even know what's the exact distance between point A and point B. It could be more than 100 meters. It's common knowledge that CAT cables can't carry signal that far without a reapeter, so it shouldn't have been a suggestion in the first place. I didn't mention street poles because that's irrelevant to this discussion.
If you must know point A is my bungalow at one end of the road and point B is my friends bungalow at the other end of the road.
uberjon said:
No point being here.. Unsubscribing from thread.
Click to expand...
Good idea! The thread got side tracked due to too much irrelevant discussion.
If I wanted suggestion on alternatives I'd asked the suggestions on alternatives in the first post itself. My queries are very specific on what I want to know.
I know what are the alternatives ( even remote ones) as I'm few steps ahead in that department. Thanks for your valuable time though.
 
Dushie said:
Have you looked at getting a dual wan router, i feel that will work out much better for you. Do try the same out.
Click to expand...
I've never handled dual WAN port router. But I assume one of them is for ADSL and the other one is for cable broadband, is that right? Or is it like one is for WAN and the other is pass through for another router?
@manoj: simply put, I'm looking to use routers as muxer and demuxer. WAN cable is going to stay in the equation as it's already laid out from point A to B.
 

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