Bandwidth Cap Analysis: Why Bandwidth Caps Are Robbery

for my location to be exact here it is [noparse]http://tinyurl.com/mecheri[/noparse] [/B]There are potential buyers , few colleges in and around , many schools and good number of shops , As like all other companies you would do research on a place before stepping in right ?. I will just add one thing .. me and my friends tried asking airtel which is providing service in nearby city to expand here to our place say 6 years before. Still nothing!! As for the goverment policy thingy , what exactly is it ? I mean looking at the 3G scams , i wonder why this CONGRASS wouldnt let companies like you to lay fibres (international)?As far equipments , i just want to know the speed at which that segment is improving in terms of performance and price.. the pictures are giving me headspin 😀 .
 
for my location to be exact here it is [noparse]http://tinyurl.com/mecheri[/noparse]

Always in Tamil Nadu... I was just having a discussion just the other day with someone in Gingee (which has a similar population to your town) about providing services in small towns.

There are potential buyers , few colleges in and around , many schools and good number of shops , As like all other companies you would do research on a place before stepping in right ?. I will just add one thing .. me and my friends tried asking airtel which is providing service in nearby city to expand here to our place say 6 years before. Still nothing!!

It is regretful that towns of this size are basically ignored by the private players, but probably it's a simple question of justification.

In a small town - especially one without a railway station as both yours and Gingee are lacking - it might be such that the private player would need to rent some fiber from BSNL and at the prices I've seen them offering domestic capacity, that can really kill any hope of a private player that doesn't have it's own fiber nearby entering that market.

As for the goverment policy thingy , what exactly is it ? I mean looking at the 3G scams , i wonder why this CONGRASS wouldnt let companies like you to lay fibres (international)?

The usual claim is security. There has also been fights among the big boys with regards to cable stations - VSNL, being formerly a government entity, has had the sole rights to own/operate the cable stations for years but Reliance at the very least has contested this quite loudly when they purchased FLAG... As I recall, it's still a big mess.

As far equipments , i just want to know the speed at which that segment is improving in terms of performance and price.. the pictures are giving me headspin 😀 .

This is one area where brand is quite important, as there can be a huge variation depending on what equipment is used and what brand it is.

At a large ISP, you could be looking at $500,000+ each for the mac-daddy routers from Cisco, Juniper, Alcatel or Zhone (can be less for other brands) in the core, then at a PoP you could be looking at anything between $1,000 and $200,000 for the terminating equipment (depending if it's wireless or DSL or ethernet or cable) and again, all this can vary widely by brand, but like I said, the question is still quite open-ended and difficult to give any kind of definite answer to.

Higher cost doesn't always translate to higher quality/better performance - the difference between a $400k router and a $500k router might not be significant - but at the same time if you buy the cheapest equipment you are almost guaranteed to get what you pay for. This is most noticeable (especially to the end users) when companies have used brands like Teracom for their WiFi services - it may work, but the performance is poor, pings are high and the service becomes slow when even a dozen users are using the network. Even I made the mistake of trying a cheaper brand for our Hayai Lite service in NZ before settling on what we have now, but I've learned my lesson.

In some cases a poorly performing ISP could have several reasons for being so:
1. the ISP is running equipment that is of poor quality (in the core this isn't usually the case - most ISPs choose to run Cisco at the core which is usually decent performing stuff and is almost the defacto choice, but towards the edge of the network - where the users are - sometimes the equipment quality begins to decline).
2. the ISP is running their links at too high capacity. In India the TRAI recommends a maximum of 90% CBR (constant bit rate) before the link is considered saturated and needs upgrading (we work on the assumption of 75% = saturated because it would be very easy to spike from 75% to 90%).
3. the ISP simply has not purchased routers that are capable enough of handling the traffic volumes they do and as a result the performance of their services can suffer.
 
Like others have said, the analysis of the situation is completely off. It should be very clear that residential broadband is oversold (worldwide), and with good reason. You've heard of the "contention ratio" - that's what that means. For example, in India every 1mbit/s we buy, we can sell a maximum of 50x 1mbit/s connections (oversimplifying it, but that's the jist).

Now for the reasoning: cost. Sure, ISPs buy bucketloads of bandwidth, but riddle me this: ISP-X currently has lit up capacity of about maybe 200gbit/s (or less) - for 2 million customers, that's essentially 0.1mbit/s per customer. Even if they're paying say Rs1,000 per mbit/s (it's less than that, but let's keep the numbers clean), that doesn't factor in the cost of staff, real-estate, taxes or the equipment needed to handle all that bandwidth, let alone the last mile. Let's be generous and say the cost is then about Rs2,200 per mbit/s delivered to the home after everything. Add a little profit margin (25%) and you've got just short of Rs3,000.

Now, how many people are willing to pay Rs3,000+ a month for 1mbit/s? Not many. So how is ISP-X going to be an attractive option to it's customers? Offer say 4mbit/s for about Rs1500. But oh no! If that 4mbit/s is uncontended, they're going to lose Rs6,300 per customer per month at that price.

Enter the Fair Usage Policy.

4mbit/s allows roughly 1,200GB a month of data transfer. For ISP-X to break even, they can have a maximum of 300GB per user if the contention ratio is 1:4. But ISP-X doesn't want to break even, they want to make a profit. With contention ratios of between 1:12 and 1:20 is common in India, the indirect result basically causes an FUP of between 60 & 100GB per month. For 1:12, this means revenue of say Rs18,000 minus costs of Rs8,000 minus any other costs that may be incurred such as subsidizing modems, maintenance, DoT licence fees and in many cases, bribes or revenue sharing - the margins are still only between 30 and 50%.

The situation is slightly different in the US, and given that you've got a line that's "up to" 24mbit/s, the numbers actually get better (not by much, but the premise is kind of what we're working on) - where although bandwidth and peering is cheaper, I don't think the last-mile is, and staffing definitely isn't: then you've still got a cost of say $15 per megabit delivered (*24mbit/s = $360), contention ratio of say 15 = $750 of revenue less $360 of direct costs less incidentals leaving similar margins and similar FUPs which are dollar to gigabyte a bit similar to India. Again, oversimplifying it here (and perhaps in the ISPs favour, especially in this example), but I hope the point is made: bandwidth by itself only makes up a relatively small fraction of the total cost of supplying these services.



Residential broadband is NOT designed for anyone to start their own hosting company, and in many cases it's even against the T&C. Business connections are a bit better in this respect if you're willing to pay for them, but there are plenty of
 
For example, I have a low end dedicated server in Europe just for fun which costs me less than 40 USD and provides me unlimited bandwidth on a 1Gbps shared line and with FUP of 5000 GB after which it reduces to a 10 Mbps line. So, is the residential bandwidth in Europe so less for the providers to allow such massive bandwidth usage at low costs. I mean for a mere
 
Yes. There are significant price differences between Europe & India, the US & India and to a lesser extent Europe & the US, and there are several different things at work here.

Firstly, peering in Europe is dirt cheap.
Secondly, in almost all cases the last-mile lines are laid by the government or incumbent service provider for use by any & all service providers and because *everyone* is using that same infrastructure, whoever owns the lines gets paid no matter which provider the user is actually with.
Thirdly, peering in Europe is dirt cheap.
Fourth, in many cases a significant amount of traffic is staying within Europe because either content being accessed in Europe is hosted in Europe itself OR the major sites all have CDN nodes in the peering exchanges which causes said traffic to remain in Europe even if it comes from the US or Asia or elsewhere.
Fifth, peering in Europe is dirt cheap.
Sixth, many Europeans are used to not being deprived of bandwidth, and as such many users usage remains at manageable levels.
Finally, even transcontinental lines are dirt cheap (especially US-Europe routes).

I've was in Romania in 2008 and even at that time I found the Internet access (and mobile access for that matter) to be surprisingly good - even outside of the capital. Their government has been doing a lot of good work in that respect - so much so that Constanta now tops the speedtest records for the European continent.

They are a little bit lucky though because of their geographic location - a stones throw from Germany (via Hungary) whose telecoms are doing great things, and France, who is not only home to Alcatel Lucent, but who currently have some of the busiest Internet routes in the world, with average bitrates of over 2Tbit/s. Furthermore, they're "on the way" to these places from Turkey, Bulgaria, Greece, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia & Iran (though some ISPs from that region also partially route over Telecom Italia for the sake of diversity).

Likewise the access is quite good in the Ukraine (mostly in cities though), although some Ukrainian ISPs have a slightly interesting pricing scheme: you pay some amount per month as you would expect, but your access speed is different for domestic traffic (usually 10 or 100mbit/s) and international traffic (as low as 1mbit/s unlimited for US$6 per month, but 100mbit/s is something like US$50 or 60). It used to be similar in NZ but that was a few years ago.


Thanks for explaining. Makes a lot of sense especially the domestic and regional usage part. I have noticed this thing in the whole of Europe that most European websites are made in their regional language instead of English and so automatically attract local people. For example, websites in France normally use French for their websites, German websites use German language and target local market, Russian websites are mostly in Russian including top sites such as Rambler, Spain and Portugal also targets local audience (though they target Latin America to an extent too due to the same local language across the continents) and so on. It is quite different from countries such as India where all websites are in English and mostly hosted in the US. Even for normal sites, Indians would probably search for a English website located in US or US rather than for a Hindi or a local dialect website. Most Indian webmasters also do not target the Hindi audience or local audience as Indian online market is not the best and they also do not host here as hosting in India is also a lot more expensive than US etc. So, it makes sense why Europe does not need to spend up too much trans-continental bandwidth and in many cases trans-country bandwidth as most European websites are hosted in their local servers itself.


In short, the percentage of users who use 60-70TB a month on these servers is very, very small. Most users would struggle to use even 100GB, let alone 1, 10 or 100TB. Basically about 1,000 customers at $30 each is enough to break even on a 10gbit/s international line from NYC to Europe (though as per previous examples probably 2,000 customers to pay for all the other incidentals like staff and whatnot).

Furthermore, most of this bandwidth is being served to domestic audiences - and peering which is dirt cheap even compared to a line of this size. Going by the price of a 10gbit/s peering line in Europe where you're looking at 1,200EUR per month tops, and it's even cheaper in the US. So then we see that we've got, say, US$64,000 worth of bandwidth costs per month (assuming we only had two peering lines & two international lines) which can be taken care of with just ~4k customers - compared to India which is quite significantly more.

As we know, companies like 100TB & Softlayer (who have multiple data centres as far as I know) and the various hosting providers in Europe have WAY more than 4k customers, so it becomes a simple matter of volume versus usage: they have huge volumes of customers who hardly use anything close to the amount of bandwidth they're actually purchasing, so while the lines are vastly oversold, they're oversold in such a way that it doesn't really affect anyone.

This situation is, however, very different to residential broadband in that even a $50m data center is peanuts compared to what an ISP can potentially spend on infrastructure. Moreover, a larger percentage of residential broadband customers are far more likely to actually *use* the bandwidth that is allocated to them compared to a hosting customer.


I agree but for somebody like 100tb it is a bit different as they are MAINLY used by BANDWIDTH HOGGERS only. So, a person who spends 100GB would probably never use them as they can go for a shared hosting, VPS or a low end dedicated server at an EXCELLENT dedicated server provider like Softlayer instead of a not-so-great customer support high bandwidth provider such as 100tb. They can get it for a lot cheaper and also get a lot better quality with some better provider if they do not need such massive bandwidth and have normal websites. But for the most part it makes sense and thanks for explaining.
 
The price of Broadband in India is very high compared to Europe or other parts of Asia, with a 1 Mbit/s connection costing between US$20[44] and $30 per month

why is this so ?aren there the same international connectivity issues ?

Also what is the price of bandwidth at international level , not TO INDIA price , in general what is the price of say 1mbps/month ?
 


The price of Broadband in India is very high compared to Europe or other parts of Asia, with a 1 Mbit/s connection costing between US$20[44] and $30 per month

why is this so ?aren there the same international connectivity issues ?

Also what is the price of bandwidth at international level , not TO INDIA price , in general what is the price of say 1mbps/month ?

Price is okay as of now in India, I mean pretty much okay with my isp 2mbps ul for 1000bucks If you compared to Countries like UAE its 3,500 per month for the same thing..

I think mgcarley has clearly discussed this already, due to LLU and due to the price of the equipments being low.
1mbps in France is around 100 Bucks If i am not wrong, although i dint find 1 or 2mbps in their dictionary! 😛
 
Price is okay as of now in India, I mean pretty much okay with my isp 2mbps ul for 1000bucks If you compared to Countries like UAE its 3,500 per month for the same thing..

I think mgcarley has clearly discussed this already, due to LLU and due to the price of the equipments being low.
1mbps in France is around 100 Bucks If i am not wrong, although i dint find 1 or 2mbps in their dictionary! 😛

2mbps UL for 1K ? which ISP ?
 
price is okay as of now in india, i mean pretty much okay with my isp 2mbps ul for 1000bucks if you compared to countries like uae its 3,500 per month for the same thing..

I think mgcarley has clearly discussed this already, due to llu and due to the price of the equipments being low.
1mbps in france is around 100 bucks if i am not wrong, although i dint find 1 or 2mbps in their dictionary! 😛

are you sach92 ????

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The price of Broadband in India is very high compared to Europe or other parts of Asia, with a 1 Mbit/s connection costing between US$20[44] and $30 per month

why is this so ?aren there the same international connectivity issues ?

Also what is the price of bandwidth at international level , not TO INDIA price , in general what is the price of say 1mbps/month ?

Don't worry India is on a data center rocket. A lot of new datacenters are coming up which will greatly reduce the need of intl. BW in India.:angel_not:
though at present biggie's pay very less fr that, it is more of an business issue. biggie's are bleeding heavily due to competition in telco sector and hardly have an interest in lowering margins in BB or more importantly spending money on infra upgradation:sleeping:. They are leaving that for the govt. as of now or if that fails they will share newly built networks by third parties for lowering last mile costs just like mobile backhaul sector.:biggrin:
 
The price of Broadband in India is very high compared to Europe or other parts of Asia, with a 1 Mbit/s connection costing between US$20[44] and $30 per month

why is this so ?aren there the same international connectivity issues ?

That's pretty much it, yes. India is geographically isolated, and has neighbours it doesn't really like (and as such, doesn't have cables going across borders). Unlike Europe, where aside from much of the bandwidth being intra-continental, peering is cheap as chips: I'm talking 1,200 euros a month per 10gbit/s interconnect or even less. Compare this to NIXI where it's 3 lakhs per year for 1gbit/s plus usage charges.

Also what is the price of bandwidth at international level , not TO INDIA price , in general what is the price of say 1mbps/month ?

It's calculated per kilometer (point to point) and depends 1. on the route/cable system 2. on the amount of bandwidth being purchased and 3. the contract term (or IRU term). Purchasing 100mbit/s for 12 months won't get you any discounts but purchasing 10 or 100gbit/s for 5 or 10 years will.

Price is okay as of now in India, I mean pretty much okay with my isp 2mbps ul for 1000bucks If you compared to Countries like UAE its 3,500 per month for the same thing..

Don't even get me started with the UAE. It's a horrible horrible comparison for Internet/Phone services, and even more restricted - partially since they only have the 2 government operators - no private players at all. But also, the purchasing power is much greater there too: the Dirham is strong and it's favourable exchange rate against the INR makes it seem expensive.

I think mgcarley has clearly discussed this already, due to LLU and due to the price of the equipments being low.
1mbps in France is around 100 Bucks If i am not wrong, although i dint find 1 or 2mbps in their dictionary! 😛

Well, more accurately it's less than US$1 per mbit/s, but you can't actually get just a 1mbit/s connection. These days, what they consider to be basic service is something like 50mbit/s delivered over fibre, with TV and VOIP phone bundled for 30 euros a month (in most cities, like Paris, Nice, Bordeaux, Lyon etc that is). The same can be had for the same price on ADSL or VDSL if FTTB/H is not available. So actually compared to that, I'd say that 2mbit/s unlimited for Rs1k is not really very good value at all!

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Don't worry India is on a data center rocket. A lot of new datacenters are coming up which will greatly reduce the need of intl. BW in India.:angel_not:
though at present biggie's pay very less fr that, it is more of an business issue. biggie's are bleeding heavily due to competition in telco sector and hardly have an interest in lowering margins in BB or more importantly spending money on infra upgradation:sleeping:. They are leaving that for the govt. as of now or if that fails they will share newly built networks by third parties for lowering last mile costs just like mobile backhaul sector.:biggrin:

Actually, I'd say it's mobile competition that's bleeding them. Broadband... not so much. If the broadband sector were as competitive as the mobile sector, you'd all have much better service!
 
Actually, I'd say it's mobile competition that's bleeding them. Broadband... not so much. If the broadband sector were as competitive as the mobile sector, you'd all have much better service!

BB is not bleeding them but to the contrary cross-subsidizing the telco ops. margin fall:Tomato:. Biggies's are holding BB tariff only bcoz it is a cash cow:cow🙁as of now).
I wonder if profit's are left aside it would even cost airtel 500 bucks to deliver plans BB plans which cost now 4 times that amount. The LL costs of BSNL/MTNL are pretty indicative of the infra costs of pvt. ops fr simple adsl copper infra. The rest BW cost is quite negligible for biggie's seeing the present fup's. A little more penetration in cities will be enough to achieve this.
 
are you sach92 ???? [
Is he Your brother? 😛

Don't even get me started with the UAE. It's a horrible horrible comparison for Internet/Phone services, and even more restricted - partially since they only have the 2 government operators - no private players at all. But also, the purchasing power is much greater there too: the Dirham is strong and it's favourable exchange rate against the INR makes it seem expensive.


I was comparing UAE as i was checking etisalat broadband Tariff yesterday. btw.. just a comparsion!
Well, more accurately it's less than US$1 per mbit/s, but you can't actually get just a 1mbit/s connection. These days, what they consider to be basic service is something like 50mbit/s delivered over fibre, with TV and VOIP phone bundled for 30 euros a month (in most cities, like Paris, Nice, Bordeaux, Lyon etc that is). The same can be had for the same price on ADSL or VDSL if FTTB/H is not available. So actually compared to that, I'd say that 2mbit/s unlimited for Rs1k is not really very good value at all!

Freebox, la meilleure offre ADSL : Internet, Téléphone, Télévision Portail SFR: Actualités, Sport, Info, TV, Jeux et musique



Actually, I'd say it's mobile competition that's bleeding them. Broadband... not so much. If the broadband sector were as competitive as the mobile sector, you'd all have much better service!
You are right. its like 1750 for a 100mbps connection true unlimited the last time i checked.
 

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