Audio Players

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BTW, has anybody used musikCube. Don't be square.? How is it?:

Hehe, if thats where Amarok is then its quite a few years behind the state of the art of my preferred media manager for several years now.

Another close competitor is Helium

Music Cube is still not there yet, oh its nice if you have a few thousand files but any more and it will croak, the tags & viewschemes is as primitive as Amarok.

The only thing that Amarok has going for it is the web integration with 3rd party websites but that advantage is getting slowly eroded by the other pay for managers.
 
i am somewhat liking the windows media player in vista. 😛 dont kill me for saying that. searching is nice and fast.
 
I did try jriver. But as I have mentioned earlier, it does not support multiple track artists, multiple composers etc. Am currently trying out musikCube. It is very interesting and is similar to jriver on a basic level. And the source code is available which can be modified. Only problem is hundreds of lines of code need to be tweaked to get it to compile cleanly under VS2005.Will stick to QMP till I find something as good.
 
^^ehh? I don't beleive this - you are comparing a non-free music player worth $40 with a FREE, OPEN SOURCE one. Anyways, if tagging really means rating ( as in rating an album or a track) then yes Amarok has it and you can sort/view by rating. While we are at it, you can now tell if if these things are possible in "J River Media Center"


[*] Storing playing history information in a database backend and using it hueristically.
[*]TOTAL remote control using command-line/scripts (so you can fetch the lyrics of the song you're currently listening to and put in on say, active desktop)
[*]Fetching information about the band/track/album from wikipedia
[*]Mass id3 tag editing, features like "set id3 tag from filename pattern" where filename pattern could be permutations of Artist/track number/album name etc. These patterns can also be user defined
[*]Global hotkey support (and going by how complicated X's architecture is - is not an easy task)
[*]search keywords in search bars, so you can say "directory:bela fleck" if your tracks are not named properly or don't have id3 tags yet."
[*]Ability to run scripts within the player (note it's different from point 2)
[/list]And as others have pointed out, it's now cross platform; you can contribute to the project etc etc.
 
I did try jriver. But as I have mentioned earlier, it does not support multiple track artists, multiple composers etc.
I must have missed this, not a problem at all.

Create your own list type field called Composers, the std one with mp3 (assuming you use it) won't work unless u enter it as "composer a & composer B". With a list ype field you would say composer A;Composer B; Composer n..etc when you create a viewscheme you will see the same track listed under any of the 3.

Do the same with Artist as well since its the same prob again the std Artist field is not a list type.

Anyways, if tagging really means rating ( as in rating an album or a track) then yes Amarok has it and you can sort/view by rating.

Umm, i mean a heck of a lot more than the std. rating field 🙂, see above for just "a" example.

While we are at it, you can now tell if if these things are possible in "J River Media Center"

Storing playing history information in a database backend and using it hueristically.

Its got a database that can handle upwards of a quarter of million files, and its much faster than anything "free" out there. No external database required, they have their own integrated and fine tuned for the job.

Lets see things like last played, import date , number of plays, skip counts are all stored in the database. If i want to query or display these in any way then its trivial. Replay gain info, BPMs etc all there.

Heuristically, what's that ? an auto DJ..otherwise i can say play me an hr's worth of something of genre(x,y,z), not heard for x days/months etc of which i rated at so much. Again more complex variations are possible here.

TOTAL remote control using command-line/scripts (so you can fetch the lyrics of the song you're currently listening to and put in on say, active desktop)
Possible via plugins to do lyrics. Displayed in any way you like, not on the active desktop but in the player.


Fetching information about the band/track/album from wikipedia
Mass id3 tag editing, features like "set id3 tag from filename pattern" where filename pattern could be permutations of Artist/track number/album name etc. These patterns can also be user defined
Global hotkey support (and going by how complicated X's architecture is - is not an easy task)
They have their own user database to "fetch" info off the net. No wiki or cddb(gracenote) integration but that isn't much of an issue if you use other tools for this.

Bear in mind tho that all of these solutions depend on the info being correct in the first place so often they are either inaccurate or incomplete or non-existant so in the end the only way to do it properly is manually.

The other things you mention are child's play renaming tags from filenames as well as vice-versa etc. Tagging is one thing thats very quick & intuitive. I don't save tags back to files at all but only in the library. Since i use checksum files to check media for integrity.

Can your player do that ?...save only in the library.🙂

search keywords in search bars, so you can say "directory:bela fleck" if your tracks are not named properly or don't have id3 tags yet."
Ability to run scripts within the player (note it's different from point 2)
The searching is far more advanced than what you asked for there. You can use expressions to get even more fancy things.

Running scripts you cannot do since its not there but for the other 99% ...hehe

And yes...looking at the topic i don't see any restriciton on mentioning commercial apps, if its best of breed you want then it comes at a price. I only use 20% of what Jriver's MC can really do, mostly for media database organisation.

I would drop it within a heartbeat if i could get just those basics done properly & quickly in a free player but for several years now not a single one is even past half way there in terms of flexbility & speed.
 
Create your own list type field called Composers, the std one with mp3 (assuming you use it) won't work unless u enter it as "composer a & composer B". With a list ype field you would say composer A;Composer B; Composer n..etc when you create a viewscheme you will see the same track listed under any of the 3.

Umm, i mean a heck of a lot more than the std. rating field 🙂, see above for just "a"
Much the same in amarok, without using tags - List all composers in the Artisit fileld; all fields are searchable, use your keywords...

Possible via plugins to do lyrics.
But not out of the box?

It seems to have a COM based scripting interface... Thats great while wrting power apps but quite an overkill while you're cobbling together a small one... Not something that would get me writing my own plugins.

Bear in mind tho that all of these solutions depend on the info being correct in the first place so often they are either inaccurate or incomplete or non-existant so in the end the only way to do it properly is manually.

The other things you mention are child's play renaming tags from filenames as well as vice-versa etc. Tagging is one thing thats very quick & intuitive. I don't save tags back to files at all but only in the library. Since i use checksum files to check media for integrity.

Can your player do that ?...save only in the library.🙂


No, I don't think Amarok does that; and wisely so. I would like all info I saved on to the tag fields to stay with the tracks(including embedding album art) so that when i transfer the files across to a portable or give them to a friend, they are not lost.

I would drop it within a heartbeat if i could get just those basics done properly & quickly in a free player but for several years now not a single one is even past half way there in terms of flexbility & speed.

You havent used Amarok have you? 😛

Again, comparing a paid solution to a free and open source one is not something I would do but Amarok does satisfy all my expectation from a music player. Depends on how you want to use it maybe?
 


jriver indeed is powerful. But it is too complex and crams in too much functionality into one software to suit me. From the looks of it, Amarok seems to be similar to jriver (minus the eye candy).My ideal media player would have the following features -1. Highly configurable cd ripping functionality.2. Great tagging support.3. A media library supporting multiple views based on user configurable tags as well as queries/ filters / expressions. It should support multiple artists, composers, lyricists etc.4. Plenty of eye candy.5. Configurable track rating system.I would give QMP 2.00 (0.25 + 0.75 + 0.25 + 0.50 + 0.25) points based on the above. Wish there were a software that scored at least 4 on 5 and which were open source.
 
But not out of the box?

It seems to have a COM based scripting interface... Thats great while wrting power apps but quite an overkill while you're cobbling together a small one... Not something that would get me writing my own plugins.

Nope, since a plugin author has a huge database with all that info already available. i have not explored it much as i don't have much music that uses lyrics.

You havent used Amarok have you?

What's the biggest size of library Amarok users say they have and how is the response to queries with large libraries ?

I'd expect upto 30k files should be fine with any free player, once it gets bigger thats where they have problems, the PC not being the bottleneck here.


No, I don't think Amarok does that; and wisely so. I would like all info I saved on to the tag fields to stay with the tracks(including embedding album art) so that when i transfer the files across to a portable or give them to a friend, they are not lost.

You can always save tags to files if you want to transfer or send to another person. However what's dawned on me is that its vital to ensure that your media is not corrupted. If you use checksums then you can't write back to the files as you have to re-generate those checksums again, not feasible.

Also backups become much faster as less is required during the sync, only new stuff gets transferred rather then existing, consequently defragging is also a lot quicker.

I have basic tags stored in the files but any extra meta-data is stored in the library only. This has an extra advantage of making the player very responsive especially if you are using external USB2 drives since you don't have to write back to the files, i dont have any external USBs, i get better performance already with internal drives using UDMA4 !.

Running library-only requires experience with the player you use, as if the library gets corrupted then you are sol. Fortunately its very easy to backup the library with MC, takes seconds so you can always roll back. The hard part is noticing corruption has taken place sveral days later and then having to roll back, but again a few tests make that easier. Over the years i've become more experienced with it and have run tags free for over a yr now.


Again, comparing a paid solution to a free and open source one is not something I would do but Amarok does satisfy all my expectation from a music player. Depends on how you want to use it maybe?
Why not, Browsers were pay only until M$ offered them for free. Firefox gave IE a lot of competition and is prolly largely responsible for Opera eventually being given out free, even tho they said they would never do it.

Not that MC will become free, if that were to happen i suspect jriver would be moving into a different line of business.

Point is in this space where developments come out very quickly, the free solutions have a very tough time catching up but they ensure the pay-only players are always working to be ahead.

jriver indeed is powerful. But it is too complex and crams in too much functionality into one software to suit me. From the looks of it, Amarok seems to be similar to jriver (minus the eye candy).

Jriver's mC has been called a lot of things but i would not say eye-candy was one of them, there's much better with M$ Media center, until you try to do things with it and realise they haven't thought it through too well. There isn't cover flow a la iTunes or something like this either, try using it with several hundred albums, becomes unwieldy quite soon. Here's a free player that has aped MC's interface completely.

MC's roots & strength are in audio management, there isn't another tool that can beat it, they are also trying to allow pictures & movies to be managed..but this i think will mature maybe in the next version or 2. They are quite attentive to user requests and if its feasible you get things implemented immediately.

My ideal media player would have the following features -
1. Highly configurable cd ripping functionality.
2. Great tagging support.
3. A media library supporting multiple views based on user configurable tags as well as queries/ filters / expressions. It should support multiple artists, composers, lyricists etc.
4. Plenty of eye candy.
5. Configurable track rating system.

I would give QMP 2.00 (0.25 + 0.75 + 0.25 + 0.50 + 0.25) points based on the above. Wish there were a software that scored at least 4 on 5 and which were open source.
Everything you said is there today or can be implmented with custom tags with Jriver's MC, maybe not so much the eye-candy part, but i believe form should follow function rather than the other way around. One of the long time users was very seduced by MS media center for theater views but came back to ugly betty after a few months away.

Another of the users on the MC board has 350k+ files with lyrics and bios, he is finding it slow on a P4 3GHz & cpl of GBs of RAM and thinks he needs a faster PC. If you save all those lyrics & bios back to the fields then things are going to get slow, a much better method would be to save it to a txt file stored beside the audio files rather than in the database and have that displayed via visualizatoin plugins.
 
@blr_pInstall linux in a VM and try Amarok when you have time (have done the same here). Is an interesting piece of software. Didn't find anything earth shaking in it though (as of now). Will give it a week and then see what happens.
 
Did anyone install the latest Winamp 5.5? Its black (like WMP11). And the interface has been given a face-lift.Everyone seems to be going the "black"-way since Vista's arrival!!!
 
Yeah but if you used that word today, i bet you would get a strange look.

PARDON!!

just how long does it take you complete the daily crossword then 🙂
 
You can always save tags to files if you want to transfer or send to another person. However what's dawned on me is that its vital to ensure that your media is not corrupted. If you use checksums then you can't write back to the files as you have to re-generate those checksums again, not feasible.

Also backups become much faster as less is required during the sync, only new stuff gets transferred rather then existing, consequently defragging is also a lot quicker.

Running library-only requires experience with the player you use, as if the library gets corrupted then you are sol. Fortunately its very easy to backup the library with MC, takes seconds so you can always roll back. The hard part is noticing corruption has taken place sveral days later and then having to roll back, but again a few tests make that easier. Over the years i've become more experienced with it and have run tags free for over a yr now.


I must concede I find MC's feature set broader than Amarok, but is it a classic case of Pareto principle corollary? 20 % of the features are used 80% of the times and the rest 80% used only 20% times. Here's the situation: I have a linux desktop, a work laptop and a portable (a whimsical W950i). I wouldnt dream of getting tied down to backing up my tags/album art on a proprietary library system. I would rather have them sit on as open a platform as possible. I don't have problems with fragmentation either - ext3 takes care of that. I am not aware of a reason I must be botherred about corruption and the need to keep doing checksums of my music library. As for backup, simple scripts that copy across the delta of a snapshot from one partition to the other do the job for me.

The reason I wasn't quite willing to compare to free solution to a proprietary non-free one is, the features are primarily dictated by the customers in the latter, whereas in the former it's the developers that are the primary users and they put in features that _they_ need the most. Works for me. Works for millions of other linux users too.

Apart from the ability to handle very huge library sizes, I still don't see too many reasons to spend $40 to acquire a closed, proprietary feature set thats not cross platform and doesn't have too much use for your average audiophile. If I DO have 40$ to spare, I would save up some more and get myself a pair of senheissers 🙂 .
 

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