W
warthog
may be its a self fulfilling prophecy but whatever happens we need a renaissance of liberty.We need ron paul revolution worldwide.:thumb:
-
Amazon Deals - ToS - Warp
Question: If adequate safeguards are in place wrt to privacy what other objections remain ?
Is this even possible or a contradiction.
The purpose of an ID is to uniquely identify a citizen, how can privacy be protected in this case ?
As i google around, i found some classic propaganda in support :rofl:
To have an indentified record in National Citizen's Register is a basic right of every citizen of a nation. India has not yet implemented this policy on national level and there have been reasons assigned to various vested interests. However, India must have a national register of its citizens, assign a unique number to each person, and keep certain details in record. Apart from given name, family name, gender and date of birth, there should be name of each parent (along with their citizen #), place of birth, permanent address and current address, digital photograph and blood group type. There should not be any other data (like caste, religion, financial or social records).
Is this even possible or a contradiction.
The purpose of an ID is to uniquely identify a citizen, how can privacy be protected in this case ?
As i google around, i found some classic propaganda in support :rofl:
To have an indentified record in National Citizen's Register is a basic right of every citizen of a nation. India has not yet implemented this policy on national level and there have been reasons assigned to various vested interests. However, India must have a national register of its citizens, assign a unique number to each person, and keep certain details in record. Apart from given name, family name, gender and date of birth, there should be name of each parent (along with their citizen #), place of birth, permanent address and current address, digital photograph and blood group type. There should not be any other data (like caste, religion, financial or social records).
W
warthog
:hysterical:i guess he wouldn't mind the govt knowing when he is making love.
Given this press release its a certainty that it will happen. Its interesting to note that it precedes 26/11 by a cpl of weeks.
So everyone will soon have a unique number.
The question then becomes what more info will be attached to this number.
Besides comprising name, sex, permanent and present residential addresses, marital status, place of birth, names of spouse (if ever married) and photograph, the card will also have 'finger biometrics' and 'visible identification mark' of an individual.
according to this article.
But it does not end there, this article says
According to the government plans, the MNIC cards will hold data about Banking and Insurance services, admissions in schools, colleges and hostels, data on agriculture comprising seeds, fertilizers, marketing and credit, data on travel services which includes railway, air, bus ticket bookings, registration of land, property, shares, Health and medical services, PDS, employment, SC/ST/OBC database, disability, old age pension and freedom fighters and Gender issues as well. Information on more issues can also be included as and when the government desires and the same can be uploaded on the cards.
I think they mean that the UID can be used for the above. It cannot possibly hold info for these services as well.
and adds in the end
A senior official on the condition of anonymity, said that concentrating so much information into the hands of bureaucrats could be dangerous as they could turn autocrats. Experts also opine that there have been a number of procedural difficulties in implementing the MNIC projects as
- a major section of population is illiterate and
- secondly the people do not have legal documents to support their claims of residence.
However, they admit that if properly implemented this scheme could help check illegal immigration and lead to better planning and utilization of resources.
Here is a good summary of potential pitfalls with MNIC.
Now for the positive side (if you could call it that) see
Entitlement reform for empowering the poor: The Integrated Smart Card Report by the planning commision.
The key element of the card, particularly in advanced societies, is its number. The number is used as an administrative mechanism for a variety of purposes as well as a general reference to link the cardholders’ activities in many areas.
it then talks about the use of similar schemes in various countries.
So everyone will soon have a unique number.
The question then becomes what more info will be attached to this number.
Besides comprising name, sex, permanent and present residential addresses, marital status, place of birth, names of spouse (if ever married) and photograph, the card will also have 'finger biometrics' and 'visible identification mark' of an individual.
according to this article.
But it does not end there, this article says
According to the government plans, the MNIC cards will hold data about Banking and Insurance services, admissions in schools, colleges and hostels, data on agriculture comprising seeds, fertilizers, marketing and credit, data on travel services which includes railway, air, bus ticket bookings, registration of land, property, shares, Health and medical services, PDS, employment, SC/ST/OBC database, disability, old age pension and freedom fighters and Gender issues as well. Information on more issues can also be included as and when the government desires and the same can be uploaded on the cards.
I think they mean that the UID can be used for the above. It cannot possibly hold info for these services as well.
and adds in the end
A senior official on the condition of anonymity, said that concentrating so much information into the hands of bureaucrats could be dangerous as they could turn autocrats. Experts also opine that there have been a number of procedural difficulties in implementing the MNIC projects as
- a major section of population is illiterate and
- secondly the people do not have legal documents to support their claims of residence.
However, they admit that if properly implemented this scheme could help check illegal immigration and lead to better planning and utilization of resources.
Here is a good summary of potential pitfalls with MNIC.
Now for the positive side (if you could call it that) see
Entitlement reform for empowering the poor: The Integrated Smart Card Report by the planning commision.
The key element of the card, particularly in advanced societies, is its number. The number is used as an administrative mechanism for a variety of purposes as well as a general reference to link the cardholders’ activities in many areas.
it then talks about the use of similar schemes in various countries.
W
warthog
REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
atleast 1 country still has common sense
i will move to usa when this gestapo id card is implemented.It will be delayed by 1 or 2 yrs as this is India but i will move out.
As the motto says of new Hampshire"live free or die"
atleast 1 country still has common sense
i will move to usa when this gestapo id card is implemented.It will be delayed by 1 or 2 yrs as this is India but i will move out.
As the motto says of new Hampshire"live free or die"
I am agasint biomertic id cards but as a compromise we should have USA social security card but it should not be used to identfy you.Even in USa SS cards are not used for identification.
A social security card has a SS# which IS used to identify you for most transactions with the govt. Its the primary key used to identify a person stored in any database. You can't avail of any govt. benefits or do your taxes without it.
Now it does not work as a photo-id because there is no photo but thats where a driving license comes in. But its less of a problem because the various orgs that have your info don't talk to each other. There certainly isn't some centralised database that can pull out all of your info, unless you are a felon.
We will have the equiv of a SS# its called the NIN and it comes on a card with a photo-id & some extra info. If you read that planning commision report it talks about how govt. benefits could be streamlined wrt to the various schemes in place to support the poor. If you try to argue against MNIC this is what you will hear in its support.
There WILL be abuse as there are no laws present currently to protect for it, but once the complaints come out they will have to pass laws to this effect.
A social security card has a SS# which IS used to identify you for most transactions with the govt. Its the primary key used to identify a person stored in any database. You can't avail of any govt. benefits or do your taxes without it.
Now it does not work as a photo-id because there is no photo but thats where a driving license comes in. But its less of a problem because the various orgs that have your info don't talk to each other. There certainly isn't some centralised database that can pull out all of your info, unless you are a felon.
We will have the equiv of a SS# its called the NIN and it comes on a card with a photo-id & some extra info. If you read that planning commision report it talks about how govt. benefits could be streamlined wrt to the various schemes in place to support the poor. If you try to argue against MNIC this is what you will hear in its support.
There WILL be abuse as there are no laws present currently to protect for it, but once the complaints come out they will have to pass laws to this effect.
REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
atleast 1 country still has common sense
i will move to usa when this gestapo id card is implemented.It will be delayed by 1 or 2 yrs as this is India but i will move out.
As the motto says of new Hampshire\"live free or die\"
Just recently seen the movie Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4).
I was amazed & shocked to see the details villian can acquire from the ID information and use it against anybody to achieve his evil goals. Are you worried by the same fear?
I agree on Blr_p's quote about info provided on ID card
India must have a national register of its citizens, assign a unique number to each person, and keep certain details in record. Apart from given name, family name, gender and date of birth, there should be name of each parent (along with their citizen #), place of birth, permanent address and current address, digital photograph and blood group type. [COLOR=\"Red\"]There should not be any other data (like caste, religion, financial or social records[/COLOR]).
atleast 1 country still has common sense
i will move to usa when this gestapo id card is implemented.It will be delayed by 1 or 2 yrs as this is India but i will move out.
As the motto says of new Hampshire\"live free or die\"
Just recently seen the movie Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4).
I was amazed & shocked to see the details villian can acquire from the ID information and use it against anybody to achieve his evil goals. Are you worried by the same fear?
I agree on Blr_p's quote about info provided on ID card
India must have a national register of its citizens, assign a unique number to each person, and keep certain details in record. Apart from given name, family name, gender and date of birth, there should be name of each parent (along with their citizen #), place of birth, permanent address and current address, digital photograph and blood group type. [COLOR=\"Red\"]There should not be any other data (like caste, religion, financial or social records[/COLOR]).
I was amazed & shocked to see the details villian can acquire from the ID information and use it against anybody to achieve his evil goals. Are you worried by the same fear?
In a word, yes.
Because there are no laws to protect data in this country as yet. Which means it can be abused by bureaucrats as well as identity thieves 🙁
There does even seem to be any awareness about this except for that human rights features report i linked to earlier.
The concerns mentioned above do not necessarily mean that India’s planned MNIC programme must be discarded, but they signal a need for oversight to protect the privacy and equality rights of India’s citizens from the inherent risks of a national database for personal information. Implementing and maintaining the MNIC system will generate high costs along with risks to safety, security, privacy, freedom, and liberty. MNICs should not become compulsory until there is an established judicial overview to ensure that the privacy rights of India’s citizens are not unlawfully violated. It is important that India confront and manage these risks and consider all alternatives before implementing the MNIC programme nationwide.
I would be more comfortable with the card as it will carry tangible benefits for all provided, security of data was protected by the law.
In a word, yes.
Because there are no laws to protect data in this country as yet. Which means it can be abused by bureaucrats as well as identity thieves 🙁
There does even seem to be any awareness about this except for that human rights features report i linked to earlier.
The concerns mentioned above do not necessarily mean that India’s planned MNIC programme must be discarded, but they signal a need for oversight to protect the privacy and equality rights of India’s citizens from the inherent risks of a national database for personal information. Implementing and maintaining the MNIC system will generate high costs along with risks to safety, security, privacy, freedom, and liberty. MNICs should not become compulsory until there is an established judicial overview to ensure that the privacy rights of India’s citizens are not unlawfully violated. It is important that India confront and manage these risks and consider all alternatives before implementing the MNIC programme nationwide.
I would be more comfortable with the card as it will carry tangible benefits for all provided, security of data was protected by the law.
W
warthog
even with all concerns addressed national id is a tool for police state
a very intresting article about national id by indian express
Multi-benefits
"That its security value will overshadow the MNIC’s more benign use leads to another worry — the possible misuse by an overbearing security apparatus. It is one thing for a national identity card to help prevent terror attacks, quite another for permanent check points to insist that crossers produce ID cards as a matter of routine. There is a fine line between a well-policed state and, well, a police state."
Why in US it is being opposed so much?.cuz the local govt and people know what it is for.
Even if national id cards come with photo it will be used for all financial transactions in 10-15 yrs.and then the govt can make you a non citizen by simply switching off your chip.
gives new definition to orwellian.
btw the world would be in financial ruins by 2011 😛 thats the only way to stop this.
a very intresting article about national id by indian express
Multi-benefits
"That its security value will overshadow the MNIC’s more benign use leads to another worry — the possible misuse by an overbearing security apparatus. It is one thing for a national identity card to help prevent terror attacks, quite another for permanent check points to insist that crossers produce ID cards as a matter of routine. There is a fine line between a well-policed state and, well, a police state."
Why in US it is being opposed so much?.cuz the local govt and people know what it is for.
Even if national id cards come with photo it will be used for all financial transactions in 10-15 yrs.and then the govt can make you a non citizen by simply switching off your chip.
gives new definition to orwellian.
btw the world would be in financial ruins by 2011 😛 thats the only way to stop this.
even with all concerns addressed national id is a tool for police state
a very intresting article about national id by indian express
Multi-benefits
\"That its security value will overshadow the MNIC’s more benign use leads to another worry — the possible misuse by an overbearing security apparatus. It is one thing for a national identity card to help prevent terror attacks, quite another for permanent check points to insist that crossers produce ID cards as a matter of routine. There is a fine line between a well-policed state and, well, a police state.\"
Funny thing about that article is your quote was just thrown in as an afterthought. There was not much development along that line of thinking in the article. But at the beginning of the article there is better development and they mention how it would be used for benefits for the poor. If there is protection of data this problem of overbearing security apparatus is reduced but not removed.
Yes, doubtless, police power will increase as a result of MNIC, thats one of its objectives after all. I think this is sorely needed in this country. Just look at the number of explosions that have happened over the last few years. There is no other country in peace time that has had as many !!!
This is happening because police power in this country is much below what is the case elsewhere. The same argument dovetails with the need for legalising guns. If there was more law enforcement the need for guns for the citizens would be lower.
You can rave about the US all you want but i've lived there for many years and can assure you there are a damn sight more cops in NYC than i've seen in BLR. Police powers there are pretty powerful, how do you think Guiliani cleaned up NYC in the early 90s 😉
Why in US it is being opposed so much?.cuz the local govt and people know what it is for.
This needs to be researched some more, unfortunately, no one is going to summarise this clearly unless i read it myself :wall:
Even if national id cards come with photo it will be used for all financial transactions in 10-15 yrs.
Its possible to do this with a smart card, ie use it as a pre-paid card. So no it wont be used for ALL transactions, but many will make use of it wherever possible.Already any (white) payment over Rs.50k requires a PAN# anyways.
and then the govt can make you a non citizen by simply switching off your chip.
Rubbish, more likely scenario is those that don't have a card will not be able to avail of benefits, which is not the case today. But then there are alternative methods like ration cards etc.
I'm still in two minds over this ID thing, my only requirement is stricter stds for data protection, after that i think it will be a net benefit for the country as a whole.
a very intresting article about national id by indian express
Multi-benefits
\"That its security value will overshadow the MNIC’s more benign use leads to another worry — the possible misuse by an overbearing security apparatus. It is one thing for a national identity card to help prevent terror attacks, quite another for permanent check points to insist that crossers produce ID cards as a matter of routine. There is a fine line between a well-policed state and, well, a police state.\"
Funny thing about that article is your quote was just thrown in as an afterthought. There was not much development along that line of thinking in the article. But at the beginning of the article there is better development and they mention how it would be used for benefits for the poor. If there is protection of data this problem of overbearing security apparatus is reduced but not removed.
Yes, doubtless, police power will increase as a result of MNIC, thats one of its objectives after all. I think this is sorely needed in this country. Just look at the number of explosions that have happened over the last few years. There is no other country in peace time that has had as many !!!
This is happening because police power in this country is much below what is the case elsewhere. The same argument dovetails with the need for legalising guns. If there was more law enforcement the need for guns for the citizens would be lower.
You can rave about the US all you want but i've lived there for many years and can assure you there are a damn sight more cops in NYC than i've seen in BLR. Police powers there are pretty powerful, how do you think Guiliani cleaned up NYC in the early 90s 😉
Why in US it is being opposed so much?.cuz the local govt and people know what it is for.
This needs to be researched some more, unfortunately, no one is going to summarise this clearly unless i read it myself :wall:
Even if national id cards come with photo it will be used for all financial transactions in 10-15 yrs.
Its possible to do this with a smart card, ie use it as a pre-paid card. So no it wont be used for ALL transactions, but many will make use of it wherever possible.Already any (white) payment over Rs.50k requires a PAN# anyways.
and then the govt can make you a non citizen by simply switching off your chip.
Rubbish, more likely scenario is those that don't have a card will not be able to avail of benefits, which is not the case today. But then there are alternative methods like ration cards etc.
I'm still in two minds over this ID thing, my only requirement is stricter stds for data protection, after that i think it will be a net benefit for the country as a whole.
mintoo2cool
Newbie
this is nothing but bad news...:O india too?! so fast?! i thought they'd simply exterminate india ... oh well ... as always ... the card will be accepted by the masses ...you can rant all you want... just as genetically modified veggies and fruits from monsanto were accepted and we eat those fruits and veggies ... when the EU , China , Russia and some south american countries had banned its farmers from growing monsantos generically modified food-crops and using monsantos herbicides and pesticides... But in India No one cares ... no one gives a **** ... they can feed poison yet no ones going to care ... JAAGO GRAHAK JAAGO my ass... oh well ... what can you do ... most people like to stay ignorant , listening to retarded-copied music , watching stupid tv-shows and idiotic reality shows ... which are basically copies off US shows... which are basically copied of UK and european shows ...
W
warthog
amen but remember what Thomas Jefferson saida minority with courage is a majority.also in today's toi 83% want national id card with only 16% who oppose it.this is what democracy is,tyranny of majorityand republic is the rule of law.We are a republic just like USA but no politican says that we are a republic.
W
warthog
wrong post
W
warthog
Nilekani to have Cabinet minister rank as Identification project head - India - The Times of India
Smart new driving licence issued in Bangalore - Technology - livemint.com
remember the police needs a warrant to search your home or or belongings but with rfid which is a contactless tech they dont even have to be near you!.
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:madness:
Smart new driving licence issued in Bangalore - Technology - livemint.com
remember the police needs a warrant to search your home or or belongings but with rfid which is a contactless tech they dont even have to be near you!.
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:madness:
Nandan M Nilekani Appointed as Chairperson of Unique Identification Authority of India To Relinquish the Position of Co-Chairman and Member of the Board at Infosys
he has left infosys i believe for this new government post 😢
he has left infosys i believe for this new government post 😢
