Hi,I have an Airtel Leased line (radio link - with a 30ft tower on my roof in Delhi) at 4Mbps. I am launching a small data center, running Dell rack servers for web hosting services.Would this 4Mpbs leased line be enough for my use? I am planning to provide shared hosting and VPS - starting with around 100 clients.Thanks
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Best Leased Line for small data centre?
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mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
...probably not, no. Have you already spent the money on VESDA systems, raised flooring, power backups, structured cabling, air filtering and security systems?If so, what about redundancy? What happens when that connection gets saturated and customers start complaining? What happens when all the systems start downloading security updates from outside and your webservers become slow and/or inaccessible? What about DOS attacks? What happens should physical disaster strike (fire, powercuts etc)?If not, you're probably better off co-locating in an existing data centre that has, which will add redundancy and cost you less money in the short-term - Tata does this in most metros, Tulip has just launched a big DC, and most decent sized ISPs offer Co-Location in some form.
Can anyone quote me aswell for leasedline or fiber optics ?Requirements are network of 10Mbps,25,50 or 100Mbps with high bandwidth or unmetered.I know about BSNL FTTH and at first was thinking to get the 100Mbps line to distribute them between our servers but want to know more options when its a private ISP or any company providing that.@Thread starter, if you are thinking to use 4Mbps-10Mbps line for VPS and servers, you better not think about expanding out of india with that network/server setup. The low connectivity and network outside india will piss all your customers and force you to get refund requests daily.Better colocate in some nearby country like NL.Right now we also have colocation in US, NL (3 locations), ROYou can get 1U space with 1Gbps connectivity and 1-2~TB BW for around just Euro60-80~
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
Can anyone quote me aswell for leasedline or fiber optics ?
Requirements are network of 10Mbps,25,50 or 100Mbps with high bandwidth or unmetered.
I know about BSNL FTTH and at first was thinking to get the 100Mbps line to distribute them between our servers but want to know more options when its a private ISP or any company providing that.
Typically you wouldn't be allowed to run servers like this on the likes of a typical BSNL FTTH connection, that's not what the service is designed for, and they'd want to give you a leased line. Depending on how much you buy, expect to pay upwards of Rs6k/megabit/month in small quantities (1 STM or less) or maybe 2/3 that if you buy say 4 STMs or reduced even further with bulk purchasing - hence you might also want to look at co-locating in India, or talk to E2E Networks
If you're still set on a leased line, since you're in the Delhi area, you probably want to talk to Tata, Tulip or Spectranet.
@Thread starter, if you are thinking to use 4Mbps-10Mbps line for VPS and servers, you better not think about expanding out of india with that network/server setup. The low connectivity and network outside india will piss all your customers and force you to get refund requests daily.
Better colocate in some nearby country like NL.
Right now we also have colocation in US, NL (3 locations), RO
You can get 1U space with 1Gbps connectivity and 1-2~TB BW for around just Euro60-80~
You don't have to go to Europe or the US to get cheaper connectivity - although probably not *as* cheap as some of those options, E2E Networks is giving fairly decent prices - and they're based in Noida with servers in most metros, so latency is usually pretty good... but it depends where most of his clientele are and where their websites are focused.
Requirements are network of 10Mbps,25,50 or 100Mbps with high bandwidth or unmetered.
I know about BSNL FTTH and at first was thinking to get the 100Mbps line to distribute them between our servers but want to know more options when its a private ISP or any company providing that.
Typically you wouldn't be allowed to run servers like this on the likes of a typical BSNL FTTH connection, that's not what the service is designed for, and they'd want to give you a leased line. Depending on how much you buy, expect to pay upwards of Rs6k/megabit/month in small quantities (1 STM or less) or maybe 2/3 that if you buy say 4 STMs or reduced even further with bulk purchasing - hence you might also want to look at co-locating in India, or talk to E2E Networks
If you're still set on a leased line, since you're in the Delhi area, you probably want to talk to Tata, Tulip or Spectranet.
@Thread starter, if you are thinking to use 4Mbps-10Mbps line for VPS and servers, you better not think about expanding out of india with that network/server setup. The low connectivity and network outside india will piss all your customers and force you to get refund requests daily.
Better colocate in some nearby country like NL.
Right now we also have colocation in US, NL (3 locations), RO
You can get 1U space with 1Gbps connectivity and 1-2~TB BW for around just Euro60-80~
You don't have to go to Europe or the US to get cheaper connectivity - although probably not *as* cheap as some of those options, E2E Networks is giving fairly decent prices - and they're based in Noida with servers in most metros, so latency is usually pretty good... but it depends where most of his clientele are and where their websites are focused.
Okay first of all, seriously no offence but rather than colocating in India and then depending for support or remote hands on the typical support of those DCs inhere, I had rather continue how we are working. We are already having full racks in many locations outside and happy with it.The reason we want a few servers in India are for a VPN, local backup and central servers to control all servers aswell as host our CRM Panel.What is STM ? Sorry but didnt get what it meant.Also, I am in Delhi NCR so fortunately can go anywhere Delhi or UP (Near Noida Delhi Borders)Also, I read nowhere on BSNL site that there are any separate FTTH plans for buisness or commercial use or anywhere in TOC restricting such use ? You sure it wont be allowed as its not on such a large scale in india.E2E networks, I cannot be sure about their word on 100Mbps network. Most service people in India say same but by the end of the day 2, you get to know its just a 10Mbps port and the support keeps replying "Its a shared 100Mbps port and thats what you get from it"Even the top DC of India CtrlS cannot guarantee you network saying you get dedicated 10Mbps which can burst till 3Gbps if bandwidth is available at that time.So you are having almost 1k servers in your DC and still expect free BW out of a 3Gbps line/network ?Well, everyone have their own exp. and viewsWell, you know any private ISP or way to have optic fiber or eth line of 10-30Mbps least ? Unmetered preferred
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
Okay first of all, seriously no offence but rather than colocating in India and then depending for support or remote hands on the typical support of those DCs inhere, I had rather continue how we are working. We are already having full racks in many locations outside and happy with it.
This is fine - everybody's scenario is different. If you're looking to have your servers in India, then they should be in a data centre, not at the end of some FTTH line, that's all.
The reason we want a few servers in India are for a VPN, local backup and central servers to control all servers aswell as host our CRM Panel.
Fair enough - how much do you think you really need, considering your broadband is likely to be far slower than 100mbit/s?
What is STM ? Sorry but didnt get what it meant.
Also, I am in Delhi NCR so fortunately can go anywhere Delhi or UP (Near Noida Delhi Borders)
STM is a unit of measurement for bandwidth, it equates to 155mbit/s.
Also, I read nowhere on BSNL site that there are any separate FTTH plans for buisness or commercial use or anywhere in TOC restricting such use ? You sure it wont be allowed as its not on such a large scale in india.
I would be very surprised if it was allowed. BSNL is not very transparent in it's T&C but generally speaking a plan intended for broadband use will not be allowed to have servers sitting on the end of it - at least, anything other than private servers (which yours would not be, judging by what you're saying here). This doesn't apply just to India.
E2E networks, I cannot be sure about their word on 100Mbps network. Most service people in India say same but by the end of the day 2, you get to know its just a 10Mbps port and the support keeps replying "Its a shared 100Mbps port and thats what you get from it"
Even the top DC of India CtrlS cannot guarantee you network saying you get dedicated 10Mbps which can burst till 3Gbps if bandwidth is available at that time.
So you are having almost 1k servers in your DC and still expect free BW out of a 3Gbps line/network ?
Ctrl-S is quite a bit smaller than at least 3 other companies I know, but I see your point. What you are saying, however, is true of any DC, anywhere in the world. Do you honestly think the 1Gbit/s is dedicated in your European data centre?
The rate quoted by any ISP or HSP is a burst rate, but the DC *should* have sufficient bandwidth that this is achievable much of the time.
As far as E2E is concerned, I've met Tarun a few times and he is buying at least a few hundred megabits of bandwidth - I just did 2 simple tests (wget) now and got around 50mbit/s from a 2 servers in Mumbai to a VPS in Delhi, so "up to 100mbit/s" does ring true, but it's not quite as bad as you might think - from that same VPS I can usually obtain 50mbit/s to my home connection in Mumbai so for the average website this is sufficient.
Of course, I might say differently if I wanted to run something a little more intensive like a video streaming service, in which case I'd be looking to purchase at least a gigabit to start with anyway, however, even for your needs, considering the speed of your broadband connection even a shared 100mbit/s port might be OK, but I don't know enough about your specific situation to be sure.
Well, you know any private ISP or way to have optic fiber or eth line of 10-30Mbps least ? Unmetered preferred
As I've already mentioned, speak to Tata, Tulip or Spectranet in Delhi. Or Bharti if you get desperate. Or Reliance if you get really desperate.
This is fine - everybody's scenario is different. If you're looking to have your servers in India, then they should be in a data centre, not at the end of some FTTH line, that's all.
The reason we want a few servers in India are for a VPN, local backup and central servers to control all servers aswell as host our CRM Panel.
Fair enough - how much do you think you really need, considering your broadband is likely to be far slower than 100mbit/s?
What is STM ? Sorry but didnt get what it meant.
Also, I am in Delhi NCR so fortunately can go anywhere Delhi or UP (Near Noida Delhi Borders)
STM is a unit of measurement for bandwidth, it equates to 155mbit/s.
Also, I read nowhere on BSNL site that there are any separate FTTH plans for buisness or commercial use or anywhere in TOC restricting such use ? You sure it wont be allowed as its not on such a large scale in india.
I would be very surprised if it was allowed. BSNL is not very transparent in it's T&C but generally speaking a plan intended for broadband use will not be allowed to have servers sitting on the end of it - at least, anything other than private servers (which yours would not be, judging by what you're saying here). This doesn't apply just to India.
E2E networks, I cannot be sure about their word on 100Mbps network. Most service people in India say same but by the end of the day 2, you get to know its just a 10Mbps port and the support keeps replying "Its a shared 100Mbps port and thats what you get from it"
Even the top DC of India CtrlS cannot guarantee you network saying you get dedicated 10Mbps which can burst till 3Gbps if bandwidth is available at that time.
So you are having almost 1k servers in your DC and still expect free BW out of a 3Gbps line/network ?
Ctrl-S is quite a bit smaller than at least 3 other companies I know, but I see your point. What you are saying, however, is true of any DC, anywhere in the world. Do you honestly think the 1Gbit/s is dedicated in your European data centre?
The rate quoted by any ISP or HSP is a burst rate, but the DC *should* have sufficient bandwidth that this is achievable much of the time.
As far as E2E is concerned, I've met Tarun a few times and he is buying at least a few hundred megabits of bandwidth - I just did 2 simple tests (wget) now and got around 50mbit/s from a 2 servers in Mumbai to a VPS in Delhi, so "up to 100mbit/s" does ring true, but it's not quite as bad as you might think - from that same VPS I can usually obtain 50mbit/s to my home connection in Mumbai so for the average website this is sufficient.
Of course, I might say differently if I wanted to run something a little more intensive like a video streaming service, in which case I'd be looking to purchase at least a gigabit to start with anyway, however, even for your needs, considering the speed of your broadband connection even a shared 100mbit/s port might be OK, but I don't know enough about your specific situation to be sure.
Well, you know any private ISP or way to have optic fiber or eth line of 10-30Mbps least ? Unmetered preferred
As I've already mentioned, speak to Tata, Tulip or Spectranet in Delhi. Or Bharti if you get desperate. Or Reliance if you get really desperate.
Actually professional DCs provide what they promise and mention clearly on their product list their usage policy.I am using both dedicated 1Gbps and 95th Percentile billing (50Mbps) so its always better when usage policy is clear.I mean you sign a contract with CtrlS when at first call they say "Yeah you can use upto 1Gbps" but on 7th call they are saying "You can use upto 1Gbps or more but it depends how much bandwidth is available free for use at that time"Secondly, yes our usage won't be 100Mbps at all. 10-30Mbps line would be good enough but its always good to know how much we can expand with our current provider, also getting BSNL FTTH line of 10Mbps unmetered for just 1 server or 2 servers I dont think should count in commercial. I can just show that usage and those servers in a apartment for personal use. But yeah from a legal point of view, I had rather not do it and look for alternatives.MTNL/BSNL Leased Line offers are not so decent priced on high links.34Mbps is for Rs 1.08 Lacs I guess.Is the price yearly ? As then it makes it almost 9k INR a month which would fairly be decent enough for a dedicated line.However nowhere bandwidth is mentioned.Can I assume its unmetered ?E2E provides colocation ? Can they also provide a optic fiber line to a apartment/office nearby from their facilities ?Reliance is outta question, too damn costly as per what I have read regarding their service and rates.Their network might be the topest in India, but in that price I can take a Plane and colocate same servers in Singapore or HK maybe.
x720
Incoherent Poster
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
Actually professional DCs provide what they promise and mention clearly on their product list their usage policy.
I am using both dedicated 1Gbps and 95th Percentile billing (50Mbps) so its always better when usage policy is clear.
I mean you sign a contract with CtrlS when at first call they say "Yeah you can use upto 1Gbps" but on 7th call they are saying "You can use upto 1Gbps or more but it depends how much bandwidth is available free for use at that time"
Dedicated port != dedicated Internet bandwidth. No data centre is providing you with the latter - especially not at the $80-100/month range. You could get your own carrier bandwidth but that's not the same.
Secondly, yes our usage won't be 100Mbps at all. 10-30Mbps line would be good enough but its always good to know how much we can expand with our current provider, also getting BSNL FTTH line of 10Mbps unmetered for just 1 server or 2 servers I dont think should count in commercial. I can just show that usage and those servers in a apartment for personal use. But yeah from a legal point of view, I had rather not do it and look for alternatives.
It would be a wise choice, IMO 🙂
MTNL/BSNL Leased Line offers are not so decent priced on high links.
34Mbps is for Rs 1.08 Lacs I guess.
Is the price yearly ? As then it makes it almost 9k INR a month which would fairly be decent enough for a dedicated line.
The price you see on the MTNL website (I assume you've looked at this page (Mumbai tariffs)) is annual, but is not all inclusive, of, among other things, Internet Bandwidth. This is a *circuit only* price from one point on MTNL's network to another (and not even premises to premises).
From MTNL Mumbai's page:
"Leased Circuits are dedicated link which interconnects important nodal centers and sites. The Leased Circuits are popular medium which is being utilized Enterprises to conntect their data centers, operational sites, call centers etc to run their business applications. A leased circuit may be a speech circuit, a data circuit or a telegraph circuit. MTNL Procvides different types for Leased Circuits."
The correct pages for leased lines from MTNL Delhi or MTNL Mumbai
I'd point you at the relevant pages on BSNL's site but it's unreachable half the time so I'm not even going to try right now.
However nowhere bandwidth is mentioned.
Can I assume its unmetered ?
Leased lines are not metered.
E2E provides colocation ?
I don't know. Ask them.
Can they also provide a optic fiber line to a apartment/office nearby from their facilities ?
Laying cable and providing services on them requires a specific type of license, so, no.
Reliance is outta question, too damn costly as per what I have read regarding their service and rates.
Their network might be the topest in India, but in that price I can take a Plane and colocate same servers in Singapore or HK maybe.
It'd be a lot cheaper, of course, but whatever quotes you've had from Reliance are for Leased Lines, so comparing them to the prices you've seen on MTNL/BSNL's sites for Leased Circuits would not be fair. At the end of the day, prices aren't going to vary significantly from the big 3, especially when you're only buying small amounts of bandwidth - they might even go so far as to just use the TRAI ceiling tariff which was set, what, 5 years ago or so.
I am using both dedicated 1Gbps and 95th Percentile billing (50Mbps) so its always better when usage policy is clear.
I mean you sign a contract with CtrlS when at first call they say "Yeah you can use upto 1Gbps" but on 7th call they are saying "You can use upto 1Gbps or more but it depends how much bandwidth is available free for use at that time"
Dedicated port != dedicated Internet bandwidth. No data centre is providing you with the latter - especially not at the $80-100/month range. You could get your own carrier bandwidth but that's not the same.
Secondly, yes our usage won't be 100Mbps at all. 10-30Mbps line would be good enough but its always good to know how much we can expand with our current provider, also getting BSNL FTTH line of 10Mbps unmetered for just 1 server or 2 servers I dont think should count in commercial. I can just show that usage and those servers in a apartment for personal use. But yeah from a legal point of view, I had rather not do it and look for alternatives.
It would be a wise choice, IMO 🙂
MTNL/BSNL Leased Line offers are not so decent priced on high links.
34Mbps is for Rs 1.08 Lacs I guess.
Is the price yearly ? As then it makes it almost 9k INR a month which would fairly be decent enough for a dedicated line.
The price you see on the MTNL website (I assume you've looked at this page (Mumbai tariffs)) is annual, but is not all inclusive, of, among other things, Internet Bandwidth. This is a *circuit only* price from one point on MTNL's network to another (and not even premises to premises).
From MTNL Mumbai's page:
"Leased Circuits are dedicated link which interconnects important nodal centers and sites. The Leased Circuits are popular medium which is being utilized Enterprises to conntect their data centers, operational sites, call centers etc to run their business applications. A leased circuit may be a speech circuit, a data circuit or a telegraph circuit. MTNL Procvides different types for Leased Circuits."
The correct pages for leased lines from MTNL Delhi or MTNL Mumbai
I'd point you at the relevant pages on BSNL's site but it's unreachable half the time so I'm not even going to try right now.
However nowhere bandwidth is mentioned.
Can I assume its unmetered ?
Leased lines are not metered.
E2E provides colocation ?
I don't know. Ask them.
Can they also provide a optic fiber line to a apartment/office nearby from their facilities ?
Laying cable and providing services on them requires a specific type of license, so, no.
Reliance is outta question, too damn costly as per what I have read regarding their service and rates.
Their network might be the topest in India, but in that price I can take a Plane and colocate same servers in Singapore or HK maybe.
It'd be a lot cheaper, of course, but whatever quotes you've had from Reliance are for Leased Lines, so comparing them to the prices you've seen on MTNL/BSNL's sites for Leased Circuits would not be fair. At the end of the day, prices aren't going to vary significantly from the big 3, especially when you're only buying small amounts of bandwidth - they might even go so far as to just use the TRAI ceiling tariff which was set, what, 5 years ago or so.
http://www.bsnl.co.in:9080/opencms/bsnl/BSNL/services/enterprises/leased_tariff.html#high
Can you tell me the about the above prices ?
Are they not for the leased lines itself but just Circuits ? And then what are the cricuits for then ? How to get bandwidth to them.
Can you tell me the about the above prices ?
Are they not for the leased lines itself but just Circuits ? And then what are the cricuits for then ? How to get bandwidth to them.
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
http://www.bsnl.co.in:9080/opencms/bsnl/BSNL/services/enterprises/leased_tariff.html#high
Can you tell me the about the above prices ?
Are they not for the leased lines itself but just Circuits ? And then what are the cricuits for then ? How to get bandwidth to them.
Same same - they're just circuits. Basically they're for point to point usage, for example, if you've got multiple offices around the city or country and need to exchange information (but not on the public Internet). You'd probably find banks and stuff use these types of products.
For a leased line with actual bandwidth, this is the product you'll need: http://www.bsnl.co.in:9080/opencms/bsnl/BSNL/services/broadband/internet_tariff1.html (31.25 lakhs for 34mbit/s if you want 1:1 uncontended bandwidth, or cheaper if you can deal with 1:4 contention), so, I was right when I said to expect over Rs6k/mbit/month in one of my first posts to you (this price works out to Rs7,659/mbit/month in case you don't feel like doing the maths) 🙂
Frankly though, prices listed by BSNL are a bit on the high side even if you're purchasing 10gbit/s, so... I'd still say talk to Tata and all the others I've already mentioned first, or better still, just find somewhere to Co-Locate - they would all be more than happy to figure something out for you - but without knowing your budget it's really hard to say much more.
Put simply, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a better deal - and probably performance - sitting on a 100mbit/s port that with contended bandwidth than getting a 34mbit/s leased line irrespective of contention - and from a private player you're almost guaranteed to get better support as well, irrespective of whether you choose to lease or co-locate.
Can you tell me the about the above prices ?
Are they not for the leased lines itself but just Circuits ? And then what are the cricuits for then ? How to get bandwidth to them.
Same same - they're just circuits. Basically they're for point to point usage, for example, if you've got multiple offices around the city or country and need to exchange information (but not on the public Internet). You'd probably find banks and stuff use these types of products.
For a leased line with actual bandwidth, this is the product you'll need: http://www.bsnl.co.in:9080/opencms/bsnl/BSNL/services/broadband/internet_tariff1.html (31.25 lakhs for 34mbit/s if you want 1:1 uncontended bandwidth, or cheaper if you can deal with 1:4 contention), so, I was right when I said to expect over Rs6k/mbit/month in one of my first posts to you (this price works out to Rs7,659/mbit/month in case you don't feel like doing the maths) 🙂
Frankly though, prices listed by BSNL are a bit on the high side even if you're purchasing 10gbit/s, so... I'd still say talk to Tata and all the others I've already mentioned first, or better still, just find somewhere to Co-Locate - they would all be more than happy to figure something out for you - but without knowing your budget it's really hard to say much more.
Put simply, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a better deal - and probably performance - sitting on a 100mbit/s port that with contended bandwidth than getting a 34mbit/s leased line irrespective of contention - and from a private player you're almost guaranteed to get better support as well, irrespective of whether you choose to lease or co-locate.
How much do they pay for this? I guess they dont have to pay per gb to their uplink provider(reliance,airtel) whatever it maybe considering they have 5.8gbps unlimited bandwith to share among users:S
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1296/fivenetwork.jpg
Please clear my doubts :S
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1296/fivenetwork.jpg
Please clear my doubts :S
mgcarley
Founder, Hayai Broadband
How much do they pay for this?
Don't know. Every ISP negotiates differently according to how much they buy and how good of a relationship they have with their account manager(s). If I were to use BSNL's pricing (which, as previously mentioned, is a bit on the expensive side), around 35 lakhs per year per STM (so 14 crores or so for 40 of them).
Although given that they don't buy from BSNL plus knowing what my pricing is, it's very likely that it's significantly less than that. But exact figures I either don't know (in their case) or can't reveal (in my case). Sorry.
I guess they dont have to pay per gb to their uplink provider(reliance,airtel) whatever it maybe considering they have 5.8gbps unlimited bandwith to share among users:S
No ISP pays per GB to their upstream provider. All the bandwidth any ISP buys comes in the form of unlimited leased-lines at whatever capacity they buy (in this case, appears to be 40x STMs or so) - but therein lies the problem.
They can't resell that bandwidth uncontended to their users (would be too expensive) and this is why as consumers we have contention ratios and fair-usage policies to deal with. It's up to the ISP how he distributes the bandwidth he buys, what contention he places on it and what his plans are going to be (and as a result, how much he charges).
I come up with Rs/GB equivalencies using a pretty simple formula: price per STM / 12 (months) / 140 (mbit/s usable after overhead) / 320 (approx GB transferable per mbit per month), so if I was paying for example 35 lakhs per year per STM, that would work out at about Rs6.5/GB + tax (as delivered to my office).
Don't know. Every ISP negotiates differently according to how much they buy and how good of a relationship they have with their account manager(s). If I were to use BSNL's pricing (which, as previously mentioned, is a bit on the expensive side), around 35 lakhs per year per STM (so 14 crores or so for 40 of them).
Although given that they don't buy from BSNL plus knowing what my pricing is, it's very likely that it's significantly less than that. But exact figures I either don't know (in their case) or can't reveal (in my case). Sorry.
I guess they dont have to pay per gb to their uplink provider(reliance,airtel) whatever it maybe considering they have 5.8gbps unlimited bandwith to share among users:S
No ISP pays per GB to their upstream provider. All the bandwidth any ISP buys comes in the form of unlimited leased-lines at whatever capacity they buy (in this case, appears to be 40x STMs or so) - but therein lies the problem.
They can't resell that bandwidth uncontended to their users (would be too expensive) and this is why as consumers we have contention ratios and fair-usage policies to deal with. It's up to the ISP how he distributes the bandwidth he buys, what contention he places on it and what his plans are going to be (and as a result, how much he charges).
I come up with Rs/GB equivalencies using a pretty simple formula: price per STM / 12 (months) / 140 (mbit/s usable after overhead) / 320 (approx GB transferable per mbit per month), so if I was paying for example 35 lakhs per year per STM, that would work out at about Rs6.5/GB + tax (as delivered to my office).
