Internet market in India doesn't works the way you want it to work. There is no custom made solutions available yet. Would love to see a Company who can do "Make n Buy" plan on their website.manitkat said:
20,000 for 20Mbps is out of the question from Reliance, TATA or Airtel . However they will not impose any FUP on any lease line . You can get around 6Mbps Lease Line in your budget line without any FUP. Anyone who offers more speed and claim it as Lease Line is Bluffing/ Cheating.crashnburn_in said:
Care to explain what you mean in more detail?xserver said:
With the price of bandwidth dropping as it has for the past couple of years, it it possible to get a leased line for less than Rs1500/mbit/month now, even at the lower end (granted, I'm not as apt at costing out low amounts of bandwidth, but the rule of thumb is "the more you buy, the more you save, and the longer you buy for, the better").Of course, you have to know how to negotiate properly - take whatever the first salesperson tells you and divide it by at least 2. Even if they charge highly for infrastructure, off the top of my head I don't think there's any reason you couldn't get 10mbit/s symmetrical for under Rs20k in most cities. The question would remain though: do you *really* need one? Leased lines are often horrendously oversold - that is, for what they offer, they're overkill for the vast majority of people who are sold them.xserver said:
Thinking and Delivering are very 2 different aspects of doing business. I would be more interested in seeing 1 Mbps 1:1 Lease Line delivered @ 1500 rather than speculating that it can be done.mgcarley said:
Frankly, there's no point in worrying about 1mbps leased lines because with the way they're used to define the product in India (very very loosely), they're complete and utter bullshit because they're not actually what they're made out to be. Yes, you may lease exactly that amount of bandwidth but rarely does anything else come with it even at the relatively high-prices.xserver said:
Copy that from NIXI's website or something? The estimated cost in my last post is based on the per-megabit price I get at a much higher level (with a multiplier to account for the fact that you're buying less) and an educated guess at the infrastructure cost based on recent memories of per KM pricing in Mumbai.xserver said:
This one, unfortunately, is true. If you've ever watched how we respond publicly to the "do you deliver in..." questions, you'll notice we often say "no, due to local conditions". But, if I can get a DS-3 delivered to the premises 22km away for around 8 lakhs a year, then surely I can extrapolate from that information what ~10mbit/s would cost - I'm not just pulling numbers out of my arse here.xserver said:
Uh, no, that's why I said you have to negotiate. If you don't negotiate, they will ream you. I'd have thought that it's in the blood of most Indians to not accept the first offer and to bargain it down hard - I like to think I learned from the best, in that respect 😉xserver said:
xserver said:
Unfortunately this too is a hard truth, but both, actually (see my first paragraph above).xserver said:
Yes, that was exactly my point of what Leased Line means , whether it's 1Mbps or E1/T1/DS-3 , It will relatively cost very high because of its nature.mgcarley said:
Yes, It's from NIXI website. I was waiting for your feedback that even if you buy STM-1 @ XYZ price , you cannot provide 1Mbps @ 1500/month as there are infrastructure cost involved in it.mgcarley said:
Your figures do smell a nasty *dunno from where it's being pulled* but *STILL* its Rs 1481/Mb/Month without Service Tax .. Along with Tax it becomes 1664/- , Higher than what you had quoted of 1500/Mb/Month.mgcarley said:
mgcarley said:
Welcome to the Era of *IDIOTNESS* or Let's say *UTTER SMARTNESS* from your upstream company. You ask them Dark Fiber but they will ultimately end up selling bandwidth to you.mgcarley said:
You are gradually coming to the point that despite of all efforts it is not possible to provide 1Mbps @ 1500/month at current market standards where ISP is cut off with all sorts of facilities may it be RoW , Dark Fiber , or Even Subsidized Spectrum in lieu of the heavy License Fee / FBG / PBG.mgcarley said:
Already explained it in my second post where you can make your custom plans and active it. Obviously Hayai had already done most of it but not all of it .mgcarley said:
Yes, but if you recall, my original point was that leased lines as they are usually sold in India are not leased lines.xserver said:
Well, unfortunately, NIXI's website has nothing to do with anything at all. NIXI is a peering exchange, nothing more. They do not provider infrastructure nor bandwidth. As such, the numbers there are completely irrelevant to this discussion.Also, I did not say it would not be possible to deliver 1mbit/s at Rs1500/month - the price of bandwidth now would allow that BUT I'm saying that even looking at a 1mbit/s leased line for anything other than an ATM or something that really needs it is pointless: a leased line at this level would not be about bandwidth, but more about reliability and latency. Oh, and keeping whatever data you're transferring on that line the hell off of the public Internet!!In addition, the price of Rs1500/mo as quoted in a previous post would be inclusive of the infrastructure and at the time I got a quote for that, this included 22km of fiber from one part of the city to another - I did say DELIVERED, not just bandwidth, didn't I?Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you think I'm saying the OP couldn't get what he wants for that price - I seem to recall saying exactly the opposite, that is, 10mbit/s for under 20k *now*.xserver said:
Perhaps, but there are 2 reasons for this:1. Anyone buying a leased line is likely to be a business, and can write off service tax.2. Prices on most consumer lines in India are published as "plus service tax".3. Anyone buying a leased line without forming some kind of legal entity and not writing it off as a business expense would probably be slapped by their CA.xserver said:
Unless you plan on building your own network, you may have to opt for the latter.xserver said:
Well aware of it, which is why my RFPs always specifically say we're not interested in bandwidth, merely fibre - we take care of the optics at either end and connecting from there to everything else, all we want is some operational cable that is either in place or contracted to be so.xserver said:
Fortunately for me, they're not allowed to say no. In addition, I'm fairly certain that they *would* sell me a hen if I were promising to pay them royalties on every egg that the hen laid - for them, it's money for nothing.xserver said:
I'm not sure you're entirely familiar with how things work. FBG/PBG have to be paid irrespective. License fees are according to revenue, so you'd think it's in their best interest to minimize that.You should also know that when I cite a number, it should suggest to you that I am no longer legally obliged to protect that information, which means that it's probably at least a year old.As such, my original statement about 10mbit/s being available for less than Rs20k should be roughly correct (let's peg it at Rs15k for the sake of the argument and the person who stated they could spend that much), assuming that the price of 10mbit/s is correspondingly higher (percentage-wise) as compared to the per-unit price at the higher tiers;HOWEVER;you may (or may not) be correct that 1mbit/s of dedicated bandwidth on shared infrastructure (as most "leased lines" are delivered in India) may (or may not) be available at Rs1500 depending on the actual provider of the infrastructure (some are more reasonable than others). Most likely I suspect that you'd see something like Rs2k for 1mbit/s and Rs15k for 10.But you'd *definitely* not find anything available on dedicated infrastructure (such as a T1/T3/etc) at these sorts of prices - the equipment by itself makes this prohibitively expensive.What I seem to be seeing from you is a small amount of confusion as to how much things cost: the cost of providing 10mbit/s over infrastructure is not 10x the cost of providing 1mbit/s. In reality, it's probably more like 1.1x the cost - if that, since the only thing that actually changes is the amount of wholesale bandwidth required to service the connection. I'm not spending any more money on optics or switches or cabling, the cost of electricity increases only marginally, I'm not spending any more on licensing or anything else like that, all I'm doing is changing a couple of numbers in some software and that's basically it (in a slightly simplified nutshell).xserver said:
Apologies, I did not see this part of the post (and I still can't see it, but you're explaining it now so it's OK.Also, there are other providers which allow you to customize your plans, although in my opinion, not as much as we do. But there will be a reason for this level of customization not being available: billing becomes a nightmare. There's a reason we only restrict either one or the other (data or speed) - if we had to have profiles for each speed + data combination, it would get VERY messy VERY quickly. As it is I only have to have about 10 or so for each category of customer.Additionally, I seem to recall there is a restriction on the number of plans a provider is allowed to offer at any given time so as to "avoid confusion" - as I recall it is/was about 25 or 30 but I'd have to refer back to the rules.xserver said:
Having fine control over the billing system is not the problem - having what would technically amount to being a custom plan for each individual customer, THAT is the problem, because the logic involved (which is how the billing system is going to calculate things) is difficult to implement.This is why (as I suggested earlier) it's best to only have one variable change in the plan... that is to say either speed or data (not both) otherwise the amount of plans you have to program in to the billing system increases not linearly, but exponentially. More to the point, I don't know any respectable ISP anywhere in the world that wrote it's own billing system in-house but frankly,such a project would surely be a disaster because ISPs are not accountancy firms or lawyers, and most programmers aren't either.xserver said:
Sure, but you ensure accuracy how, exactly? This is one of the biggest complaints I saw when I was building up: people claiming inaccurate billing and/or massive bill shock when some grandma receives an Internet bill for a lakh.xserver said:
When you're billing voice, you're billing only one variable: time. When you're billing for Internet services, ideally you're only billing for data, so such topups become completely feasible (and this is how certain plans on my network work), but what you seemed to be suggesting is for both to factor (as if you might pay less per GB at 512k than at 10mbit/s).Airtel already does bill for both speed and data, with optional "smartbytes" addons - and look how well that's turning out.xserver said:
No kidding. I had no idea. Thank you for that insight.xserver said:
On some ISPs you can. Airtel is one of them, but there are others *trying* such plans - I think Nextra or someone like that was doing it. Smartbytes isn't turning out to be very fun for many people, based on what I've read, and I don't have enough information about some of the others yet to ascertain what customers are thinking of those plans.The way I've solved it personally on certain plans is to just let the wires worry about determining the speed (in the same way that there's no restriction on the speed of 3G and you will get different speeds according to area, time of day, where you're downloading from etc), simplifying the billing by only worrying about data usage and allowing you to top up any time you want so long as your account remains valid. But that's just me - other ISPs may or may not follow suit one day.xserver said:
