YOU Broadband's horrible routing causing high latency and slow speeds. (Pune)

D@rekills4 said:

SpeedTest's over wireless, especially LTE are not reliable for latency testing. Too many factors that can cause varying.

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This is Airtel 4G and Airtel Broadband. During non peak hours there's not much difference on 4G too.



If Airtel can provide this pings why can't Jio ?

@RummaanKhan - the short answer to your question "If Airtel can provide this pings why can't Jio ?" is because they're not obliged to.

C3PO said:

@Dark_Nate



And that's what I have been trying to say all along! Believe it or not the gaming community does NOT make the world go round for large Telecommunication Cos. Corporates accounts do! "DECENT" routing speeds is once again a loose term.



That is a question that only they can answer but it all depends on the costs, ISP backbone, their tie ups with different providers among several others. Latency and lag has been the bane of the internet since the beginning. Some of it due to last mile connectivity issues and some because of the ISPs NOC and backbone network. It differs from case to case



Dude, Latvia is the size of a postage stamp compared to India with its BILLIONS of users including over mobile and wireless internet, fiber, DSL among others. There's no comparison. Fact is India's bandwidth availability compared to it's size and population is low.

I have seen trouble tickets for fiber broadband in Europe back when the fastest available speed in India was a measly 16 Mbps over ADSL. But it was a massive improvement in performance over the then prevalent ADSL or at best VDSL connection even in Western EU.

So, most people have something to whine about their internet connectivity just like we all do with mobile cos whether Jio or Airtel etc. Now believe me when I tell you a home broadband user gets no SLAs and no guarantees of up time or latency. All ISPs do is tell the customer "you will get x amount of data at y speed" but no guarantees of performance or uptime. I would seriously encourage you to read the CAF and/or the contract form which we all fill up when opting for the connection. 🙂



I get a 5-6 ms ping to AWS's Mumbai servers.

Now for the fine print with my 3 ISPs:

Tata Sky Broadband - Subscription Contract

I quote:



You Broadband - YOU Broadband - Terms & Conditions

See Pt # 24



Airtel broadband - Airtel T&C

See pt 10



Net, net - there's nothing any subscriber can do. Except possibly change to another one. Save your breath. 🙂

Cheers!

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Where can I find the T&C for BSNL FTTH?

@Dark_Nate right here BSNL T&C

I quote the relevant bits of the PDF for forum members:

See Pt/Section 6 i.e. the Disclaimer:

While every effort is made by BSNL to provide highest quality of services to its customers of BROADBAND Services, the linking, quality and speed of data transmission is entirely dependant on the telephone line connectivity as may be permitted by BSNL systems. Accordingly, BSNL shall in no event be responsible to the customer in any manner whatsoever for any failure, defect, delay in connectivity or accidental loss of connectivity of the customer with BSNL network computer or the deficiency in data transmission between the customer and BSNL network computers, or for any inconvenience, damage or loss that may be caused to any one or of any kind arising there from. BSNL is not responsible for subscriber’s computer hardware and software or areas of the Internet not under its control. BSNL does not warrant privacy, security, or efficiency of the Internet. BSNL is not responsible for actions taken by its customers or others as a result of its services. BSNL is not responsible for material any person (including household members of the subscriber) may receive or transmit via the Internet, or for anything bought or sold via the Internet, or for any other result of an action taken by anyone using its service. The BROADBAND Service is provided by BSNL on an "AS IS and AVAILABLE" basis without warranties of any kind, either express or implied, including but not limited to warranties of title, non-infringement or implied warranties of merchantability of fitness for a particular purpose. No advice or information given by BSNL, its affiliates or their respective employees shall create a warranty. Neither BSNL nor its affiliates warrants that the service will be uninterrupted or error free or that any information, software or other material accessible on the service is free of viruses, worms, Trojan horses or other harmful components. Under no circumstances shall BSNL, its affiliates or its contractors be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, punitive or consequential damages that result in any way from customers, use of or inability to use the
service or to access the Internet or any part thereof, or customers reliance on or use of information, services or merchandise provided on or through the service, or that result from mistakes, omissions, interruptions, deletion of files, errors, defects, delays in operation, or transmission, or any failure of performance.

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So, gents, calm down and stop with this routing rant because your ISP doesn't really give a f***ing crap. Similar T&Cs can be found for other broadband providers. Head to their respective website and check em out.

@C3PO That's strictly for BSNL Broadband aka ADSL line. It clearly states "the linking, quality and speed of data transmission is entirely dependant on the telephone line connectivity".

I'm looking for BSNL FTTH's T&C.

@Dark_Nate it is the same for all consumer broadband connections regardless of the technology used to deliver the service. Substitute fiber for telephone line. The further your home's distance from the OLT, and other factors (for e.g. more the splices in the fiber), the weaker signal your ONT receives. And that drives the speeds you get. But the basic T&Cs remain the same in terms of performance and uptime. Sorry, but you're expecting or demanding leased line performance from a home connection. That's not going to happen regardless of which ISP you sign up with.

Check the fine print in the CAF here: CAF

Section 18:

FTTH services quality or functionality, availability and / or reliability may be affected and / or BSNL is entitled to without any liability, refuse, limit suspend vary, disconnect and or interrupt the services, in whole or in part any time in its sole discretion with respect to one / all subscribers, without any notice or reasons.

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If you have any further questions about T&Cs for any ISP..Google is your best friend.

Cheers!

@C3PO 🙇‍♂️ Couldn't agree more! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

@C3PO, I agree, they will not prioritise home connections with lower latencies because they have other priorities.

But isn't that something you would like to see changed in the near future, to have lower latencies on home connections as well?


Also, I will say that you won the lottery if the speeds you say you are getting are true.
Hardly anyone of us gets those speeds.

On my connection, SpeedTests within the state will reach 200 MBPS. But outside the state, never above 100 MBPS.

Outside India, SpeedTests will reach 50 MBPS but I would be lucky if I got 10 MBPS in actual download speeds. I am forced to use multi threaded downloaders like IDM.

Our opinion differs from yours because you literally are a super rare lucky case. The rest of us have been living with shit internet even in metro cities.

I have complained so many times. Their complaint staff knows everything about these issues, they actually agree with me. But I know that they are under strict orders to not share contact details of their network engineers or else they will be sacked.

@D@rekills4,

My thoughts as follows:

I agree, they will not prioritise home connections with lower latencies because they have other priorities. But isn't that something you would like to see changed in the near future, to have lower latencies on home connections as well?

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Of course I would! Heck, I'd love to see super fast speeds that are in line with the best in the world. But sadly our eco-system and environment do not lend themselves to such feats. India is a highly price sensitive country. Another factor is a great majority of people need their internet to provide streaming, surfing the net, music or even mundane things like email. High performance internet connection is simply not a priority for them.

Also, I will say that you won the lottery if the speeds you say you are getting are true. Hardly anyone of us gets those speeds. On my connection, SpeedTests within the state will reach 200 MBPS. But outside the state, never above 100 MBPS. Outside India, SpeedTests will reach 50 MBPS but I would be lucky if I got 10 MBPS in actual download speeds. I am forced to use multi threaded downloaders like IDM.

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Ok, here's the thing and let me also let you in on an ISPs secret. Maximum speeds are always from your home/premises to the nearest geographic location point on the internet which MAY also include the ISPs own server or another local ISP. It is not feasible to provide 200/300 Mbps to a point in India and the same speed to one sitting on the other side of the globe or in even neighbouring countries. That's where leased/dedicated links come in. And due to the SLAs on speed and performance they get very expensive.

Geographical distance matters (several international telecom networks are involved) and that's why one needs to connect to servers geographically closest to their premises when downloading or playing an online game. My current speed from Pune to Mumbai. My IP has been misidentified as Airtel but it's YBB.




So, I pay for 200 Mbps but getting well over 300. What's not to like?! 🙂

Our opinion differs from yours because you literally are a super rare lucky case. The rest of us have been living with shit internet even in metro cities. I have complained so many times. Their complaint staff knows everything about these issues, they actually agree with me. But I know that they are under strict orders to not share contact details of their network engineers or else they will be sacked.

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Bro, can I tell you something else? When you're working at a telecom centre even the smallest change at the NOC has to be approved by a higher authority. The magnitude and potential impact of the change in configuration determines how high up the approval chain goes. Telecom is critical infrastructure, heads will roll should some equipment screw up post the change or if there is any impact to the company or its customers (Corporate only please, home BB users are NOT a high priority) whether legal, financial or reputation/goodwill. So please extend some understanding to these guys at the NOC, they would love to help but can't. After all every person needs his/her job. That said, one of the reasons you probably face issues is your location i.e. the North East which from what I know isn't as well connected to the internet as the rest of India.

Long story short: Northeast India is trash in terms of internet connectivity. There's no ISP in any of the 7 states offering stable/consistent speed/latency.

The CGM of BSNL Northeast personally told me that, I'm the first customer in Northeast to come forward with complaints in regards to routing/latency in January 2020 with traceroute reports and suggestions for their peering setup. There's a tiny chance, BSNL will change their peering setup to CloudFlare in the near future, nationwide.

Two weeks after my complaint, latency dropped from 400ms to 70-100ms to servers in Mumbai. So at least, my complaint did something.

Starting 7th February 2020, there's a severe failure in Bangalore and Chennai's NIB gateway to international servers. There's also a damaged router in Meghalaya's NIB. The GM told me to give it about a week before this is resolved. So we are experiencing 2 seconds latency on almost everything along with speeds dipping below 500 Kbps. I am using CloudFlare's WARP on PC via WireGuard and also on mobile to bypass some of the BSNL's gateways, as the WARP server is located in Mumbai, I can access international sites with practically no latency whatsoever. But other customers do not have the expertise to do something like this.

According to NIB team Meghalaya; Total throughput is only 27Gbps. There are over 10,000 customers in the state. That's basically only 2 MBps for each customer. Dark Fiber is over 40 Gbps, but they have no provision to utilise any of it.

To make it worse, FTTH in the entire state's total throughput is only 2 Gbps, 1 Gbps on each of the only two OLTs that the LCO have. After my consistent complains, they said they will upgrade the LCO's bandwidth to 10 Gbps. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The NIB guys did help optimise the port profile of my connection. As during idle hours, I get 140 Mbps down/upstream. Which is beyond the 100 Mbps plan I'm paying for. And I did not hear other customers getting such speeds.

So at least BSNL does listen to customers who come forward with complaints that are backed with solid technical information.

Other ISPs including Jio Fiber in Northeast, won't listen to crap, let alone optimise the port profile for a single customer.

@Dark_Nate I am glad to hear about BSNL in the NE being responsive to customer feedback even though their hands are tied due to lack of proper infrastructure and the present environment in the company. Unfortunately as we all know the MTNL/BSNL twins are on life-support and most employees are debating about basic issues that concern them personally rather than pay attention to the customer. One employee ruefully told me that "our own people are this company's biggest enemies, they are destroying it from within". That's over and above politicians' games in Delhi that affect them. BSNL people in my city just dont seem to care. I gave up on them long back.

As for the rest of the telecom industry all except Jio (for now) are suffering which in turn affects their investments in infrastructure and dare I add sometimes even QoS. So far You BB has provided me excellent service for the 4+ years I have been with them. If Vodafone sinks, YBB will probably go down too as it is a subsidiary. Airtel too has provided very good service. This connection was taken Feb last year. The least reliable is Tata Sky BB which suffers fiber cuts every few weeks on an average.

If Jio becomes the only ISP left, it'll be monopolised and we'd be fucked.

You already know how bad Jio Fiber is in terms of security and privacy.

Dark_Nate said:

First of all, do you not understand how online gaming works?

Second of all, how exactly do you expect smooth online gaming if the routing is sub-par?

Third of all, many of us are streamers who earn income from online gaming and/or participate in competitive online gaming as a source of income.

Fourth of all, not all Indian ISPs have bad routing. I was Bangalore for a week and had access to ACT Fibernet. I managed to get 50ms on Singaporean AWS servers. This is the official maximum latency recommend by Epic Games.

If ACT Fibernet in Bangalore can managed decent routing on shared bandwidth. Why can't other ISPs including BSNL achieve the same damn thing?

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🙄Bsnl do have a good routing for thier ftth, as per lot of people over here.. even on my adsl connection while playing pubg they could maintain a 40-60ms (mumbai). on bahrain server its around 80-110ms
on Amazon aws server they do give 90-120ms on my connection even though not as good as 50ms, 100 seems playable too.

Dark_Nate said:

Long story short.

WE know, perfect routing is next to impossible for millions of users.

We expect DECENT not perfect routing.

All major online games are hosted on AWS. AWS Middle East for online games is hosted in Mumbai and Bahrain.

Can you explain to us, what's so hard for every Indian ISP from North, East, West, Central and Northeast India to achieve DECENT latency to Mumbai servers?

If you worked with European telcos, you must have seen how small countries like Latvia, can achieve decent latency to Singaporean servers but not India. And approximately 200ms to Mumbai AWS.

I'm located in Meghalaya and ping to Mumbai AWS is 300ms+ on BSNL FTTH.

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bro that is something serious .. 300ms is too high for mumbai, did you escalate the issue to concerned authorities ? even on adsl connection i dont get that high ping.
I stand by your side, on this ping issue the isp should be able to give a good routing at least in India.(that's the least we could ask)
To be honest you are the first case I'm hearing on this forum with such a high ping on bsnl ftth.
You could escalate the issues on twitter. Over here in Kerala they do provide one of the best routing, if not the best, its close enough to the best one.

@Ameen