Vodafone Idea & Airtel AGR Fiasco

godric_gt

Member
Messages
267
Why should the government take the blame for a company that willingly fails to pay taxes? Why should Jio a new operator take the blame when the existing operators have always banded together to raise the prices, provide lesser benefits, hogging all the profits but not update their networks and let the customer suffer. No, we should not blame the Government, nor Jio. The only ones to blame are the managements of Vodafone and Airtel. While Airtel has survived due to the generosity of Singtel, the management of Vodafone is left on people like like Birla who only likes to keep profitable business to inflate their pockets. Vodafone has no one to blame but itself for making bad business decisions like merger and network integration at the wrong time, and then when their own decisions turn against them they blame the government, people in turn blame Jio. Reminds me of the Ant Grasshopper story. We should be thanking Jio for making entry into Indian Telecom sector and providing us the freedom of more speed and data. For India to grow and businesses to thrive, faster communication and more data at cheaper prices were very much needed. I would prefer Vodafone stay, but if Birla wants it to go, then it can go. Having a Grasshopper in the Indian Telecom space would do it no good except hinder progress.
 

Lobogris

Member
Messages
259
Well, the government is responsible for creating an environment that allows businesses to thrive or at least survive. First they charged exorbitant prices for spectrum, then they allowed a back door cheap entry for Jio (using Loop spectrum which was data only) and allowed it to offer free services followed by predatory pricing. Now they want to collect huge dues with exorbitant penalties and interest. It is not just Vodafone. All other companies have folded due to these reasons. What happened to Tata Docomo, Reliance Communications, MTS, Maxis, Aircel, Videocon, Idea and so on? Did they all practice mismanagement or do you think that perhaps government policies might need a change?
 
Messages
428
Location
Chennai
Please stop worshipping Jio.
Do you think Ambani is gonna stop at this, they entered business at a fraction of cost compared to the incumbents. They used backdoor ways to get spectrum at dirt cheap prices which were actually meant for only Data. But using their clout they liberalized that spectrum to provide voice and data.
I agree on the airtel and Vodafone mismanagement issues but you are not looking at the bigger picture. Ambanis are the most delusional industrialists, their plan is to wipe out the competition and create a monopoly in India.
I'm not sure how strong the anti-trust laws in India, even if they are charged for monopoly they have ivy league lawyers to bail them out.
 


godric_gt

Member
Messages
267
Its never a good idea to open a grocery store in an area full of grocery stores, unless your business policy involves applying something new, something that will attract customers.
Vodafone had customers who were loyal for years, it wasnt Jio's fault i moved, I moved because Vodafone's network became pathetic to the point of unusable. And no I did not move to Jio. I moved to Airtel.
If there is no policies for favouring new business then you complain, you say the government is favouring the Mittal's the Birla's. And if there are, and people like Ambani's come in you start calling it backdoor. You say Jio's implementation costs is fractions, do you know that the so called incumbents are running on old infrastructure that cost them a lot more to maintain and integrate into newer technologies? Every industrialist is a delusional, and presented with the opportunity who wouldnt? So how does this becomes Mr. Ambani's fault alone?
Honestly I cant believe it, just point out some facts, present the other picture and I get labelled as a Bhakt.
 
Messages
428
Location
Chennai
Everybody has their own opinions and you are presenting your points rationally so I would never label you as Bhakt.
Also, For Ambani it does matter whether its the BJP or Congress they have their means in every party, they bought the dirt-cheap spectrum and liberalized it during the congress rule and BJP is basically killing BSNL to help Rjio.
You need to understand that I don't support the incumbents, I just don't like the fact that Jio is being hailed too much for what it's worth. Because Reliance has never been clean and transparent in their business and I find Jio is no exception to that.
Vodafone and Airtel have their fair share of problems and I find jio no different from Airtel or Vodafone.
Pls do read this article and it would broaden your views on Jio.
Dodgy charges in Jio fiber to evade GST
 

JamesHolden25

Member
Messages
27
Please stop worshipping Jio.
Do you think Ambani is gonna stop at this, they entered business at a fraction of cost compared to the incumbents. They used backdoor ways to get spectrum at dirt cheap prices which were actually meant for only Data. But using their clout they liberalized that spectrum to provide voice and data.
I agree on the airtel and Vodafone mismanagement issues but you are not looking at the bigger picture. Ambanis are the most delusional industrialists, their plan is to wipe out the competition and create a monopoly in India.
I'm not sure how strong the anti-trust laws in India, even if they are charged for monopoly they have ivy league lawyers to bail them out.
You don't get it do you? What @godric_gt said is right. 2G and 3G require the old circuit switched networks which is too costly to maintain. They had the opportunity to shut down 2G and 3G and move to 4G before 2020 but they didn't bother to because the circuit switched networks was bringing in their highest revenue during the 2G and 3G era, and they thought they could continue this scheme for 4G as well as 5G. Guess they were wrong.

TRAI reduced the IUC minutes to 6p from 14p back in 2017 and proposed that it will be 0 on 31st December. The AVoId cartel had ample time (3 years) to switch from 2G and 3G networks to a pure 4G IP network. But they were lazying around, and didn't do their jobs on time because they wanted to continue the scheme of 2G and 3G (according to them, if something isn't broken, why fix it). They made crores back then pre Jio era by charging us 250 to 300Rs a gig of data, and on top of that, charging us extra for talktime, and voice packs, when they could give them bundled for much cheaper, in prepaid. But they didn't bother about that. The cartel just wanted the money. We had no other choice, when the other networks like Docomo, Aircel, Uninor, etc weren't available in our area, and had to stick to the network of the oligarchs. They even lobbied the TRAI and DoT to keep the IUC for another year. It's funny when you mention that Jio is the one lobbying the government.

I didn't see anyone complaining when Airtel Vodafone and Idea were operating as a triopoly/oligopoly, and charging whatever they could. Here's something similar that happened in Canada.


Your feelings are hurt because you can see just 1 player dominating the market whereas I didn't see you giving a single fuck when the AVoId cartel was reigning supreme, looting the customers in broad daylight, before Jio came and destroyed them completely. You really need to get your priorities straight.

Jio has always been transparent ever since they launched in the market in 2016. The reason why they shifted to IUC packs was because of the COAI and the cartel lobbying the TRAI to keep the IUC regime for another year. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Jio fibre is another matter, and they even said that they have issues with their billing system for Jio fiber, and it should be resolved soon. The other problem with Jio fibre is that they chose exorbitant prices due to the fact that people will cut their cables. They're in the process of merging with DEN, Hathway and some other broadband providers, and will then switch to aggressive pricing. So stop blaming Jio for the problems the cartel has. It's on them after all.
 


eriek_halenx

Member
Messages
125
a. Wether a Bezos👌 or an Ambani or a Mittal, their aim isn't service. It's to become the biggest / make maximum possible profit. Any discount today is aimed at market share for tomorrow. Supply vs demand - that regulates their prices...

b. Suppose there are banks with interest rates from -10% to +10%. Where would we put our money? It's the same with the government and investing public money.

Government shouldn't run companies, least of all loss making ones... government should enable others by building infrastructure and reducing red tape and corruption. Schools, roads, sanitation, ports, hospitals etc etc

Communism doesn't work... Except in China... Which is a different case...

c. Some strategic ventures are there. Which the government should own / control / financially support. But which ones? Uranium mining? Electricity? Public transport? Air India? 😅 Bsnl? Competition via Vodafone? My two cents are that's open to interpretation for each person...
 
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godric_gt

Member
Messages
267
If you are worried about Jio gaining too much control, if would have to agree with you. But lets keep skepticism for the future and not let it drive our judgement here. Innocent must be dealt with as Innocent until proven guilty.
If I say something positive about Jio it doesnt mean I am inclined to it. The reality is Nobody is clean. Its just how it is. Vodafone Airtel are no exception to pulling scams either. You have no idea how many times I was put in on Value Added Services without my authorization. I once vowed not to ever use Airtel, but here I am using it. But we should not be criticizing something unnecessarily and without valid cause just because of what it might become in the future. Dont blame Jio for the plight of other operators. Dont blame the govenment as well. Even if the government does do away with all the taxes and revenue shares from the telecom operators do you think that all those past telecom operators would have been able to stay viable if they were unable to attract the sufficient number of subscribers to provide for their own operational costs? Ofcourse not.
 
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